136: Understanding Astrology with Debra Silverman - Betsy Pake

136: Understanding Astrology with Debra Silverman


Episode: 136 Debra Silverman is part astrologer, part psychologist, part comedian and ALL REAL. Over the past 40 years of private practice, Debra has helped thousands of individuals achieve emotional health and wisdom based on their unique personality and the four elements: water, air, earth, and fire. Debra’s mothering approach to understanding people has allowed her to help thousands of people, and work with celebrities such as Sting, Madonna, and Shailene Woodley. You can find Debra on YouTube and follow her on Facebook and Instagram.

You can find her website here: http://www.debrasilvermanastrology.com

Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/debrasilverman_astrology/

On Facebook Here: https://www.facebook.com/debrasilvermanastrology/



You’re listening to Episode 136 of The Art of Living big. Today on the show I have a friend Her name is Debra Silverman. She is part astrologer and part psychologist, and a little bit of comedian in there too. 

She has helped thousands of people over the last 40 years having a private practice, achieve emotional health and wisdom based on their unique personality. And the four elements water, air, earth and fire. She has a mothering approach, you’ll kind of hear it in the interview, and she’s just really knowledgeable and really just cool and full of wisdom and things to share. 

She has also worked with celebrities like Sting, and Madonna and Shailene Woodley. So I think you’re gonna really like this episode today. And we talk a little bit about some of the things she has coming up. 

She has a course that we’re going to talk about, and a book and a couple other things that you might really like to be to dive a little bit deeper into this, so yeah, I’m excited to bring this show to you today. So let’s go to the show. 

Welcome to the art of living big. I’m your host, Betsy Pake, and this podcast is designed to share interviews and new ideas to help you redefine what could be possible for your life. Now, let’s go live big. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I am here today with my friend Debra Silverman. Hey, Deborah, hey, I am so excited that you’re here today because this conversation is one that I really want to have. And so I’m happy that you took some time to spend with me this afternoon. So tell everybody a little bit about you and what you do.

So I am two things that are unusual to put together one I am a I have a master’s degree in clinical psychology. So I’ve been a psychotherapist for over 40 years. So previously that and then I am as I’m also equally as long as I’ve been an astrologer. 

So I’ve combined the psychology of the human psyche, based on both a spiritual overview that comes from the archetypes of different personality types, dealing with the personality that got affected by your childhood and the imprint and the programming and the way that you’ve been raised.

 So I combine those two flavors, and assist people to really fall in love with themselves. Like instead of resisting your person, the nature of your character, which I can describe it started because when I was in graduate school, we would do these therapy sessions. That’s what your training would be and be witnessed. 

And people would come in and they were always telling me everything that was wrong with them, of course, right. They’re coming up there, right? Yeah. And I was like, hold on a minute, because I’ve been studying astrology I was like, this is what’s wrong with you. 

Like, for example, if you’re a highly emotional person, and you’re a water sign a cancer Pisces or Scorpio that’s nothing’s wrong. That’s your sensitivity or if you’re a Gemini Libra Aquarius and you talk a lot. 

That’s not because you’re scattered and you can’t make decisions and you feel Lady that’s your nature or if you’re super practical like a Taurus, Virgo or Capricorn, you, you’re really obsessed with details and you feel like you’re never getting it done. That’s not wrong. That’s you trying to fulfill what your nature is. 

And last is fire Aries, Leo. And if you get in trouble a lot, or you overindulge or you party Hardy, or you find yourself being really pushy at times, that’s nothing wrong. That’s just a reframe that needs to happen. So I can help you understand your personality and your childhood.

So I love that. So, you know, we always talk a lot about nature versus nurture. And so you’re saying this is really a piece of the nature of it.

So, too, it’s really important to know that this whole life is based on duality. We both are spiritual, and we have that as you would describe it, that the nature like what you came with, but then there’s the nurture back at the ranch, there’s the human so there’s a spiritual that comes with the imprint, and then there’s the human impression that came through the storyline that you were brought with so I don’t separate them. 

I really believe that we are a dance of dualities. And if I can assist somebody to come sit with me in the middle, we can stop feeling the tension. That’s when anxiety disappears and sadness, all that stuff that makes us so crazy. Oh, yeah.

So explain to me what so like, I know my sign, right. So I’m a Taurus. But other than that, like, what, what is astrology? Really?

That’s such a great question. Do you know what time or what First tell me what year you were born?

  1. Although I don’t look that Oh, yeah.

But no one can see it. But yeah. I immediately know that you’re a very hard worker that you have a high value for sustained, consistent, follow through and you can’t stand when people don’t follow through when they’re not reliable. It’s almost impossible for you to understand. Is that true?

Yes, that’s so true. But do you know that you know that because of

the year that I was born. Yes. And this is what my school is all about. And what my book is about is, how do I help you learn this language? It starts off being very, like, sophisticated and abstract. 

And as you call it, whoo, I call it Woo. Like, it’s so bizarre, but because I’m so practical, I have some tourists. And me too. I translate it. So I know enough to know that 1971 that was a year where people came with a particular sensibility that I have learned over the years, that makes them super grounded. 

And people that are super grounded, can’t understand people that aren’t. So once you become understanding of the language of the differences, like Oh, so someone is built to be grounded and someone else is built to be flaky. 

And rather than judge the flaky one, you say, well, they’re kind of entertaining. And they make me laugh. They just are never on time, for example, that would be very irritating to you. Oh my god, like yet like moments. 

And that is something I really struggle with because I think, am I so judgy like everybody, like Stuff happens, you know, so I have to really like if someone’s not following through with something or not doing what they said they were going to do. 

I’m like, why don’t you just tell me what you said you were going to do instead of telling me something else and then not doing it, you’re allergic, you’re allergic to people who are flaky. Now, that’s a misinterpretation.

 So here’s what you have to learn. This is what astrology the school does. This is why I love course, so much. So when you look at your sister’s chart, and you find that she has no Earth in her chart, she’s not the grounded follow through practical be on time you say what you do and do what you say. 

She’s more of an idea person that comes up with these crazy ideas, and they’re all spontaneous, and they don’t need to be stuck to order and they come in their own Sun. Then you would say, oh, like this happened to my brother.

 He studied astrology with me and found out that my dad had no air in his chart. He didn’t talk. He just wasn’t a person that wanted to be an airhead. He couldn’t do it. And my brother spent his whole life trying to get my dad to talk and then when he learned astrology, he was like, Oh my God, this isn’t very nice. I’m trying to make him different.

Yeah, so Oh, Also, it sounds like it opens you up to just being more accepting.

Exactly. And there’s nothing wrong with judging because just so you know, Miss doors everybody judges, there’s a difference between judging and perceiving. So the tone is Bert. That’s a perception. 

The judgment is You idiot. You burnt the toast, not that’s a judgment. But the current and the truth is you don’t like people when they’re not on time or their response. That’s just a truth. It’s not a judgment, it turns into a judgment. When you start thinking, you know, that person is so annoying, you turn it into a whole story, right? So

I don’t like the behavior but I don’t doesn’t mean I don’t like as a person,

and you’re perceptive to call it what it is, but you don’t have to judge it and make it into a right or wrong.

Okay, so when you have so you’ve got this school that teaches you, does it teach you how to understand it teaches you how to understand yourself or how to understand other people or all of that first level, there’s three levels. 

The first level is falling in love with yourself. So you spend six weeks It’s a very easy class, it’s six weeks, an hour and a half once a week with 10 women in the room on the same prep on zoom. And before you got there, the teacher who I call mentor has done it with me. So we looked at your chart, she’s prepared and she takes you through baby steps like so. 

Let’s talk about this first conversation, the elements what is the water, air Earth and fire distribution of your personality type? So we started there, then once we have that conversation going, like what’s the elemental distribution? 

Then we can go to the next conversation, which is what’s the way that your mind works for example? Okay, how does your thought process work? Is it closed minded is an open minded is a judgmental. The second class is how does the mind work? 

What is the nature of your thought process and how it takes in the world so it’s one of the biggest spiritual single thought processes that says you are what you think. So in the second class, we simply identify is Your mind committed to a sensitivity and you retreat and you can’t find words water? 

Or is your mind so fast? That you have 35 ideas at all at once? Or is your mind so grounded? That you’re always thinking about money and practicality? You’re driving yourself nuts? Or is your mind so impulsive that you can’t seem to get yourself to stay on one task because you are always looking for the fun factor? That’s fire.

So, so that you learn where your thought processes so in that part of it, that part of the class so the class is a combination of the astrology and the psychotherapy would you say? Exactly right. So when we talk about astrology, then to go back to that, how would you like if you were to give a definition of what is astrology?

 Well, you’ll relate to this Taurus. It gets me pissed off. It’s because I don’t like woo, but it’s Whoo. I like the whoo I like the cider. Whoo. It’s Because you call it woowoo. And I have very spiritual friends that call it woowoo. 

But then I also have some friends that don’t they, I find that offensive. Is that offensive to call it the Whoo, I like calling it Woo. It’s like in term of endearment to me.

Yeah, we’ll see. There’s a distinction between a perception and a judgement. So the perception is yes, it’s spiritual. Whoo. But the judgment turns into your soul. Whoo, whoo. So it becomes a distinction language and you are tending to see it from a positive everything. 

This is why the second class is all about Mercury, in the way the mind works. Because once you identify your thought process, you can catch yourself, you know, judging someone and fixating on something and being obsessed with something. 

So the gift of astrology is it interrupts because i, this is what my book, the missing element really teaches. How do you turn on the observer, like just witnessing yourself in context of the language of the four elements because you take a test in the middle of the book, called, you know, this is If you get the book from my website, I send you your chart in the book and I sign it. 

So if people are everybody needs to get the book and then go to my Instagram post for this episode and tell me what, what your chart is tell me what it says. I really want to I want to see what everybody’s differences are.

 I want to see what yours is that the I know. Okay, so so the book is a simple version. It’s just a easy short book that’s really fun to read. That gives you the short answer but the course which is only twice a year, January, okay, so it’s coming up so people could go there now and sign up.



If you go if you right to apprenticeship, just one word, apprenticeship act and then three words Debra Silverman, astrology comm you can get in the wedding waiting list and we’ll send you a series of videos. It’s kind of like cheating. 

We send you this course for free, where I do these three nurturing videos and then if you like it, you can take the class but at least you can learn like I’m honestly on a on a really committed passionate quest to assist the human condition to finding compassion. 

Because if we understand that you’re so practical and your sister is such an airhead, we won’t get mad at your sister. Right, right. Yes. And for the record, my sister’s not an airhead. She’s a tourist too. And she’s very structured.

 And it’s funny because, yes, very good. Yes. It was funny because as you were saying that I was like, even though I’m also a tourist, it made me like understand her a little bit, you know, like very driven very successful, like the whole thing. What the earth she is a classical place of Earth.

 Yeah. So this is what I want you to know that there is a human developed psyche of the evolved version of the human who speaks astrology to their children to their husband to their employee. This is my future. 

I’m making this up. And then then they suddenly go, Oh, so now I understand and I don’t want to change you, but I need compassion. Because I can’t be you. Hmm. So yeah. Also, the mom doesn’t get mad at the kid who leaves things everywhere. 

Or the mom doesn’t get mad at the kid who keeps picking up their food because they want it to be just so or the mom doesn’t get mad at the kid because he’s so loud fire, or because I have so much error. We’ve become compassionate. 

And then there’s developmental evolutionary pieces where you say to the fire person, look, you can be blunt, but you have to know how to say you’re sorry, after because while you we don’t want to change you do have to be gentle.

 Right, right. So really like learning all about that stuff just helps you not only understand yourself, but understand other people, which sounds like it just helps you relax instead of going like why isn’t that right? Instead of seeing it as right or wrong? You see it as Ooh, that’s who they are. That’s interesting.

 Interesting. Exactly. Remember when you won’t remember this, but I’m in my 60s. There was a time when we did not know what downward dog was like no one knew yoga, no one even sleep. I was young. 

That was the weirdest word. Well, this is what happened with astrology. And for those of you who are looking for a career path, this is a great entrance if you’re a coach or if you’re doing therapy or if you’re a yoga instructor, because to complement your practice with astrology, astrology will become as popular as yoga was at some point coming soon to your neighborhood will understand the elements like we’ll be able to say, yeah, that’s my kid. 

He’s so water he loves to be alone and I don’t make him sometimes I let him hang out in the room because I know now that that’s his nature and it would be interrupting and judgmental if I keep making him go to those parties. So it will become a language in the mainstream.

 Okay, so I have a weird question. But does this stuff also affect our pets?

 What is like the doors question?

 Was it does it does the sun sign of your pet is definitely influential now. It’s not mercury. I was talking earlier about how the mind works and distinguishing what your thought processes that won’t Be a pet issue, but certainly their personality types are very vivid. When you gray Yeah.


 So, so Taurus, you have a dog.

 So I love my dogs. So anyway, okay, so I always hear about this and I’m going to tell you what I think I know and then I’m going to tell you what I call it and then I want you to tell me the truth. Okay? 

So I hear all the time on Instagram, because Instagram is like, where I get my news I on Instagram people talking about Mercury Retrograde and I have always heard that this is like a bad time for technology.

 It’s a bad time to sign contracts. It’s a bad time for this and that. And so I call it mercury lemonade, because it makes it seem funny and I don’t want to be fearful of something that is so funny.

 So all ask my friends like are we going into lemonade? So what is it what is that really? And and is it really supposed to Be this awful thing because I feel like if everything’s working for us in our favor, then we’re just miss understanding what this is, which is why I call it lemonade. 

It’s such a great question because that’s a perfect example of how the stories you tell yourself to come real. Nothing is wrong with mercury retrograde it is a physical fact that three times a year affected. So funny because today is going direct after three weeks of being backwards, right? 

I knew that I was getting sort of excited, but it’s December 6, isn’t it it is that today or tomorrow? Today your robots go out this alone Monday morning. So just a couple days, so perfect. I wonder if people will have noticed in the last three weeks without a question. 

There are increased glitches but all it means and that’s like on the airplanes and with your telephone and on your computer and dealing with your kids schedules and but what’s really important is during Mercury Retrograde slow down, that’s the lemonade take the lemons turned into lemonade. 

There’s nothing wrong with anything in this movie. It’s just the story we tell ourselves. So in retrograde Yes, you To become more funny, you become more happy you take your attitude into you don’t want. I’m not going to take this personally. plane is delayed. Here’s my spiritual opportunity to do a little bit of kindness when I really want to hurt someone.

 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s almost like, you know, I always think of our lives as seasons. So we have seasons where we’re growing a lot. We have seasons where we’re relaxing. We have seasons where we’re like really hustling. 

So is it helpful then to know more about astrology so that you can, and again, this is probably the tourist and me wants to plan for the season, but if I go, I know that Mercury Retrograde so maybe I’ll plan that trip to Mexico during those couple weeks.

 So I have something called the star three words that star community calm. And for $22 a month every month, you can watch a video where I tell you here’s what’s going to happen this month. 

There’s when Mercury’s going retrograde, here’s what’s going direct, and so people that are beginning errors that don’t know anything because those schools only twice a year, September and January. So we have the star community, we have about 1000 members. And they are all both advanced and beginners who just want to know what you just said, like, How do I know the seasons?

 Yeah, I need that the star community, I’m going to find it and put a link in the show notes. If anybody else wants to do it with me, because I’m going to do that. We can give you a gift.

 Why don’t you just let us know we’ll just get you in the community and then you can share it with your audience. So free to understand as a beginner, what does this month hold? And how do I prepare so because people only find out Mercury’s retrograde halfway through it, it’s great to know what’s coming. 

And then prepare is the gift of astrology and why prophecy is no profit you profit from prophecy because you can see the future and you say, Oh, I can see like, for example, if you’re 28 or 29 years old, and you’re coming into what’s called Saturn return which many people in your audience need to know about or your 58 to 68 happens twice.

 In a lifetime, that’s relevant. And those are things to prepare for 28 to 30, everything changes 58 to 60. Everything changes and knowing astrology assist you to be able to be in the flow at a conscious level. That’s really the whole my life’s work. And this is really what the book The missing elements is about is on your observer.

 Like, if you’re awake, if you’re aware, and you have a choice of how to behave. And one option is to be unconscious, bump into things and find yourself making mistakes in order to learn. And the other option is to be conscious, and being able to say to your self, listen, I just learned about myself. 

And now I understand my life lesson, which is what happens in the classroom. Now I understand my element that’s missing. I’m going to grow that element. Because I’m observing, I’m awake, and all of a sudden things get as you said, more relaxed.

 Yeah, I like that. So would Okay, so Here’s my next question. So my husband was born in January and so was my daughter like they were there a few days, you know, and only the date.

 My daughter was born January 25, of 2002. And then my husband is January 29. I think he’s 1975.

 Wow. So you have two little stubborn people in your house like, Oh my god, I really do. I can’t tell you gotta be careful. You don’t have to tell them. You got to pick your fights. Okay, yeah. 

You have to really realize that your attachment because you’re so tourists, you want them to feel safe. You want them to feel practical. You want them to do what you know is right. They don’t ever listen. They do exactly the opposite. 

They say no first, before they say yes, yes. Oh my god. I’m so sorry. That’s going to annoy you. Because it’s going to feel to you like they’re resisting you and they resist all the time that’s a good thing for you to know about your, your daughter and your husband that they’re not resisting. They just like to say no first.

 Yeah, so Okay, so people really this can really help so people that are listening, I’m like this can really help you create better relationships probably at home, but also in your career, right? So at work, if you could understand and asking somebody what they’re saying isn’t like a weird thing to ask, like, you could ask somebody that and they wouldn’t really think.

 Yes, not anymore. They it’s no longer weird. Remember, I said that about astrology?

 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it’ll become more and more, like, mainstream or more and more common. You’re thinking it’s gonna become, it’s going to become mainstream where people are going to realize this is not like your work. It’s not Whoo. It’s a science. 

The ancient oldest science on Earth was brought to us by Egyptians. Where they built these pyramids To this day, no one can explain how they were built. But clearly there was some very high intelligence. 

They left us this legacy of a mythology that has to do with archetypes of personalities. And once we have to understand the purpose of being human, I mean, I’m getting a little lofty here. But we are all here for a reason. 

This is not a mistake, you weren’t pushed on the bus, you came here, I promise you and your husband or your daughter or your soul mates, it came to work with you and learning how to evolve the species by increasing our compassion, by really deeply listening, by opening up our hearts by becoming our real selves, leaving the career that you felt you were pushing yourself into and actually finding your real calling and that’s one of the strategies best gifts is it just, you know, I’m like, I feel like a zealot. 

Sometimes like I’m on a cheerleading squad and I’m like, that’s your eight give me an eight give me an F mean it for your career. Like when I hire people. My company course we all look at their charts first.

 Right, right. Okay, so that brings me to my next question. So okay, so that’s interesting, because that would make a ton of sense. So, all right, I’m gonna ask a couple different questions. But in the course then if people want to go to the course they learn how to actually read a chart. Is that true? 

So they could the first class, they learn how to read their own whole first class. Yeah, dive into your psychology and understanding how to get back to balance. So where your career changer, you don’t know what to be when you grow up, or your kids just got born. You want to understand you, that’s level one. 

Level Two, yes, you actually learn how to do a reading. In fact, we push you out of the nest. And at the end of the level two, you’ve got to craft that we teach you literally, we give you the instructions, and you do it and you record it and send it to your mentor. 

So by the end of level two, which is only six weeks long, first six weeks, second, the second six weeks and then the third level, you come and meet me in person We actually do the class together. And you were Where are you located? I’m in Hawaii at the time and Colorado half the time. So you get to choose where you want to meet.

 I want to meet you in Hawaii. everybody listening to the show knows I’m like obsessed with the beach and I live in Atlanta. So like that anytime I’m like, Oh, I have to go to that conference. And it just happens to be in Miami or whatever, you know? No. All right. I feel like I hear also like, um, like celebrities and stuff or into a stroke. Astrology, right? Is that just because I’m on Instagram too much? 

Because they really are. It’s the oldest science on Earth. The kings and the queens and the Presidents whoever they always have, at their side, a wisdom keeper. It’s unfortunate that we’ve thrown away the wisdom keepers. Arrogance.

 I mean, I live in a Yeah, I spend every day you know giving thanks to the ancestors because I know full well. Well, that while you may not be able to see your ancestors, we’re standing on the shoulders of your ancestry.

 So all anyone with power knows there was a time. Yeah, we all understood this wisdom,



which makes sense to me. Because, you know, I always talk about having a coach, you know, a coach or mentor, somebody walk you through, and it’s sort of the same thing. It sort of makes sense that kings and queens would have had this to help them understand something that maybe they didn’t understand before.

 It’s just humility, I think, you know, in this time period when the planet is in such rough shape, and we have no hope there. We’re losing hope that will sustain or live through this if we’re being honest. 

Yes. Important thing to have a wisdom keeper nearby and astrologers. And there’s no you know, I have if you go to my website and you want to reading I no longer do readings, but I have 15 certified astrologers that come through my school. 

And I will look at your chart and put you at the right one that I’m willing to do because it’s important to have a Reading and just say, you know, how do I I don’t know if you know the yoga girl Do you know her on? 

Oh, yeah, yep. Rachel. She She really made a big step. She did one reading with me and then flew me to Aruba. And it was a powerful you can listen to her podcast as well. It was a game changer. And then she’s now studying.

 I mean, she knew nothing just like you. And now she’s her kid and her husband and you know, why would we want anything less? Yeah. You fall in love with who our family are as they are without trying to change them. What a gift.

 Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So have you worked with any celebrities?

 Well, I worked for a year and a half with sting. I traveled the world with him.

 Because I think I saw that picture on Instagram. I was very impressed because I love sting because I’m an 80s kid, you know? Yes.

 Madonna I you know, I guess I work with i don’t i big deal. But yeah, I’ve worked with I’ve been doing this for a long time. That’s you know, I have been competing. Because I’ve done it for so long that Yeah, I fit in my students. I’m watching these women, I’m teaching people how to become astrologers. 

And that you make a lot of money. Like on my website, you become an astrologer, we pay you almost $200 an hour to just tell someone a story.

 Right, right. Yeah, to tell us to help somebody better understand themselves really free frees them up and gives them deep compassion and timing. Like, what’s the timing and all those questions that really matter?


Right? Yeah.

 Yeah. Well, this has been super fascinating. Thank you so much for giving me a deeper understanding of what astrology is and how I can learn more. And I’m excited. I’m excited to get into the star community. 

And I’m gonna look at that course. So everybody listening, I’m gonna put all the links in the show notes, just so it’s easy for you to find where to go. And, and I’ll have all the links to your social media too, so that they can follow you and get some wisdom from you along the way.

 I’m so glad that you were on We’ve got to meet it. So I always call this the synchronistic, divine synchronistic connections when we meet someone I can feel how sincere you are to ours, and how committed you are to serving your audience. And that’s my deepest longing to thanks, everybody for listening to this interview with Deborah. 

I just love her and I think that there’s so much more that we can learn from her and grow so we’ll make sure all those links are in the show notes. But be sure to head to my Instagram at Betsy Pake and let me know what you think about this show. 

And if you’re going to check any of that stuff out, so thanks so much for listening and being here this week. And as always, here’s a little message from my husband


Meet Betsy!

I'm Betsy Pake!

*Ocean obsessed

*Probably hanging out with my dogs


*Deep thinker

Hey There!

About Betsy

Hi I’m Betsy and I’m a subconscious change expert.
By day you can find me digging deep into the unconscious beliefs and identity of my clients so they can move past self-sabotage and lack of confidence and gain traction in their career and life.