245: Laura Carney: Living My Fathers Bucket List - Betsy Pake

245: Laura Carney: Living My Fathers Bucket List


Today on the show I interview Laura Carney.

When she was 25 years old, her father was killed by a driver who ran a red light while talking on her cell phone. His life was cut short before he was able to do all he’d set out to do (including watching his children start their careers and get married).

In November 2016, her brother discovered a list that her dad wrote when he was 29. The title of the list: “Things I Would Like to Do in My Lifetime!” The first item: “I would like to live a long, healthy life at least to the year 2020.” Because he was killed in 2003, this goal was rendered impossible.

But she believes that when you write down a goal, one way or another, it will be accomplished. As her brother and she read her father’s list, they realized they’d already done a lot of it. And then her husband and she knew what she had to do.

She had to finish the list.

Listen in as we talk about life, death and living your dreams. This was a really fun interview for me and I’m excited to share it with you!

Find her website at www.myfatherslist.com and all over social media @myfatherslist


Welcome to The Art of Living big. I’m your host, Betsy Pake. I’m an author, speaker, a master hypnotherapist and NLP coach, and I help high achievers rewire for success. If you’re ready for the next level, you’re in the right place. Over the next 30 minutes, I hope to help you redefine what could be possible for your life. Now, let’s go live big. Hello everybody. Welcome fellow adventurers. Alright, so I’m really excited today because I have my friend, Laura Carney with me now, Laura and I met, I think you can correct me, Laura. But I think we met like in a group, a coaching group that we’re both part of. I’m a big fan of all things adventure coaching. And, and we just kind of connected there. And then we started following each other on Instagram. And she’s doing something so cool. And if you’ve been listening to the show for a while, you know my story. So you can see why this would be like something that went right into my heart. So I wanted to have her on to talk a little bit about it. So Laura, welcome to the show. I’m so excited that you’re here.

Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Tell everybody a little bit. Tell everyone a little bit about you. And then we can kind of dive into what you’re doing.

So I joined 30 days of excellence. My husband was in that group. I think that’s where we met.

Yeah, I think that is Yeah,

yeah, part of why I joined that was just, you know, it was really helpful during the pandemic to be meeting with like minded people. And, you know, starting the pandemic was actually kind of different for me than I feel like it is for a lot of people, because, you know, everyone kept talking about all the uncertainty and how they just like, didn’t know what they were going to do next. But like I had been basically doing this project of checking off my late father’s bucket list for three years and trying to write a book about it. So I had gotten really uncomfortable with uncertainty at that point, because yeah, 54 different items. And they’re all you know, they’re they’re packed with uncertainty, everything that I do so.

So you had sort of gotten to the point where uncertainty was not a, it was not a stranger to

us, my friend. I love great uncertainty as excitement what’s everybody’s freaking out about?

This? Okay, so I have a

I have a question about that. Because I think that’s actually really cool. How long do you think it took you to do things that you were totally new to you? Before uncertainty became comfortable?

That’s a very good question. I want to say a year. A year. Yeah, there. There were three things in particular, that happened in the first year of my checking off the bucket list that we’re like, oh, this isn’t something to be afraid of. And the first one I would say was skydive at least once. I love that he wrote at least once. It wasn’t just like, tell everybody.

Okay, so now we’re jumping ahead. So tell everybody, so you tell everyone your story. So and then, and then we’ll dive into that because I don’t use anybody.

My father died because of a distracted driver. When I was 25 years old, she was 16. And was what I was told is that she was lost and making a phone call at a red light. And then, you know, something happens to you when you when you use your phone like that. But a lot of people aren’t really aware of where you sort of develop this thing called tunnel vision, where you lose a lot of your periphery, but it’s really Oh, yeah, it’s almost like being drunk, like you have a blackout. So nobody remembers that this happens to them. But you know, that’s what I believe happened to her. I think that she couldn’t see that the light coming up was red. So she just ran right through it. And yeah, you know, it was it was a very old was your dad 5454. Okay, yeah. Which is weird, right? Cuz there’s 54 items on his list, that that number actually goes up a lot for me. Yeah.

Oh, fascinating.

But anyway, anyway, Angel,

what’s the angel number of 54? Do you know?

Have you ever looked up? point? Um, I’m trying to remember, you know, I think it probably would have been something combining the features of those two numbers. I think five is sort of like an adventure. And makes sense now that you say it because five sort of like is an adventure travel type of number. And four is like very stable, hard working number. And that makes for this project.

Yes. Well, it’s the ideas, thoughts and desires that you’ve been experiencing are an indication it’s time to prioritize your life and make necessary changes in order to align yourself with your soul mission and life. Which this is what this is so much. Part of that right. Okay. This is Okay, so, yeah,

I cuz I had them I have no vision. That’s Oh, yeah. I mean, I’m not kidding. Like, one of the items. I mean, I’ll go back to My origin story, but I am sweating the Rose Bowl. And I prayed during, you know, not saying I can control the score or anything. But I prayed during halftime, like, please let Georgia win because George I decided that University of Georgia was my team because my mom went to school there. And then, you know, they actually ended up scoring 54 they got like, and it was like unprecedented. double overtime. It was crazy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Before

my husband when my husband went to the Rose Bowl, he was on TV.

What I want that one was it 2000 was

the same one. He said we Oh, yeah. My husband is like an insane Georgia fan. He went

to Georgia, he saw that Creek, so he couldn’t testify to how insane that game was.

Yeah. Yeah, we were Yeah, we have just like we have season tickets. We go to all the games.

And the funny thing is, I thought it would be boring because I wasn’t a football fan. Right? Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it was like the biggest nail biter game you’ve ever even heard. Anyway, so I love that. Yeah. So okay, so so then also, like I cycled 54 miles in the desert, in Tucson, and then I went to Super Bowl 54. Last

year, gosh, okay. All right. So bad. I don’t want people I know the story. So this makes sense. But if someone’s listening, they’re not going to know what’s going

on. Sorry. So anyway, so back to the origin of it. So my father died when I was 25. And if you can picture, you know, like, like most 25 year olds, I was kind of just starting out in my life. And I had left home and was pursuing a career. I had just moved to New York City. I’d gotten an internship at an art magazine.

Is that where did you grow up in New York or

actually growing up in Delaware? Oh, okay. Every everybody in Delaware knows Joe Biden. But me. It’s really crazy.

Uncle Joe, he’s everyone’s uncle. Yeah.

Well, he did grew up in the neighborhood my dad grew up in actually, okay, yeah. So he knew my uncles and stuff, they went to school together. Anyway, I moved to New York City from Delaware, which was really a big change. I was very much a small town, suburban kind of girl. But New York just fit to me. It just, I loved it. It just made sense. And I had also at that time, met my husband online, he lived in Seattle, and was like coming to visit me it was a very, like, you know, romance rom com movie situation that was happening. My life was like very exciting. Even though I was broke, and starving to death, and you know, all that stuff.

So yeah, I got the call from my brother after living there for about three months that this had happened. And you know, I think it’s just like, it’s such an Earth, I think you can understand this feeling. It’s such an earth shattering thing. That one day, everything could be great. And, you know, I was probably pretty self centered when I was 25. So I was like, my own universe, you know. And then like, the next day, you understand the realities of the world in a way that most 20 somethings don’t. So I think because, you know, after after I got through the early stages of processing what had happened.

So this, this woman was on the phone, she went right through a red light and hit your Dad, did he die right away.

That’s what I was told. I was told by the police officer who tried to resuscitate him said he died instantly. Okay, yeah, that’s it Tatum. But, and it’s weird, because when I was at the we had sort of a trial at the police station. And they had they said, the number of witnesses that came in was unprecedented. And I remember a woman crying on the stand who had been raped, played in the car right behind him, who had honk their horn, her husband honked his horn to try to warn him, and I almost, you know, wanted to like console her. Because, you know, I think that’s one of the thing when when it comes to car crash deaths, that’s really hard for loved ones is that, like, this whole lack of saying, Goodbye? Yeah. Well, lack of being able to protect the person, particularly if it’s your child, I think. Yeah. And, and it’s sort of like she was that person in that position? Who saw that? When don’t you

don’t if for me when my mom died? Um, I really, it was part of my grieving process was understanding and hearing what everyone else experienced. So like, yeah, like, I wanted to know what when people would say, Oh, my God, I was so shocked when I heard about your mother. I would say like, Who told you? What happened? Like, what did you say? Like I really wanted to know, and it’s interesting not to make this story about me.

It’s interesting. It’s rare. I meet a podcaster, who has a similar experience. So I appreciate it.

Yeah, similar story, right. Um, you know, last month I was at my training, and I mentioned this on the podcast, but I was at this training and part of the training was, was there As a speaking component to it, and so I was telling the story about my mom, similar to the one that I did a few days ago on Instagram, or I GTV. Okay, so I was telling the story. So, you know, in that process, they were having me go through it, and like, explain it.

And they kept saying that he explained the field, like, explain what the field, you know, use descriptive words like. And finally, I was like, I don’t know, I’ve never seen the field. Like, I’ve never actually seen it. I’ve heard people talk about it, but I’ve never seen it. So I sat down, somebody else got up to speak, whatever my phone rang, and I didn’t know who it was I let it go to voicemail. And it was a man, that was someone that I knew from my past. That was a pallbearer at my mom’s funeral. So a family friend of ours. And you know, he said, Hey, Betsy, you know, this is Dan. I can’t stop thinking about your mom, and about the car accident. Now. I have not talked to him. I don’t know.

Me, maybe 15 years you don’t I’m saying so it’s not like we talk. So I can’t stop thinking about your mom like the last couple days, which those couple of days I was telling the story over and over and over and over again, right? So I can’t stop thinking about your mom. And I just realized I live right near where she died, which was in a different state than where I live, where I lived growing up. So I realized I live right near where your mom died.

And I didn’t know if you wanted a picture. So you could see what it looked like. I was like wackadoodle thing. The interesting thing was, he said he was thinking about it, but he didn’t know exactly where the weird kid got off the road. And so he found a Facebook group that was like for the community, it must be a pretty small community in upstate New York, and he posted in there and people commented how they remembered. And he screenshotted that and sent it to me. And I didn’t realize how much I needed to know what the people in that. I mean, now it’s been like 33 years, but I was on Oh my god, just to see how people were like, I remember that. You know, it’s weird as it sounds. They were like those poor people. I remember she had young daughters. It like, made me feel better. You know that like,

yeah, it wasn’t your they were burden alone?

Yes, that’s exactly it. They were shocked to like it. So it like validated my shock. Right. So anyway, I say all that just to say, I need part of my grieving was I really needed to know that other people were in shock. Like I needed to know, I wasn’t alone in that. Yeah.

Are you familiar with Carolyn mace at all?


she she does, like the soul contract thing and archetypes. She’s actually much more into prayer these days. But I heard her say once, and it’s really resonated with me. Whenever you’re a person who feels like there’s been some kind of injustice done to that sort of sticks with you, and then it affects you and affects your energy in the way you’re, you’re living through the world. Oh, if you don’t find a way to address it, if there isn’t someone who’s like, you know, I I recognize that this isn’t Okay, that this Yeah. And I feel it too. And, you know, I think that is something that, particularly this year, at least in our culture, I think a lot of people are experiencing a lot of injustice, you know, what they perceive to be injustice. So I think that’s a pretty common feeling right now.


yeah. It’s almost like this simmering rage that it’s like, this wasn’t addressed, like this wasn’t done. And, you know, I did. Um, to go back to the story, I did experience that. Except for me, it was sort of like, you know, I’m a fairly, you know, at least on the surface, pretty mild mannered person. Yeah, you know, it was sort of like my husband and I would get in a stupid argument about nothing. And then like, in the middle of the night, I would just be like, really angry like it just like, something would come out of me like a tornado, which I’m sure no me. wouldn’t expect, but, and we would just be like, Whoa, this is scary.

When this happens, you know, like, what, what is this? And after enough years of that happening? Well, first, I just gave up drinking completely. Because we gradually realized that there was some some weird interaction happening because I take an antidepressant and it was like, I was getting really irritable the next day after drinking. So that helped. Then I started running that really helped. But But overall, I think what was happening was, I had not found an appropriate outlet for that and that I was gay. So yeah, you know?

Yeah, that’s fascinating. Yeah, I like

to go somewhere, right?

Yeah. And if someone’s listening and they want to know Carolyn, Miss, it’s it’s m y s. s. Isn’t that how you spell Her

name is pronounced like ma si E. But it may not. Yeah,

okay. Yeah, me. Okay. Yeah, just so please could look her up.

Yeah, I love her. She’s great. Yeah. and stuff, too.

She does. Yeah, I follow her on Instagram. And I think I might even have one of her books, but I haven’t read it yet.

Sacred contracts. That’s

what it’s called. Okay, yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, it’s interesting, though, to bring that up because I actually, so I had a accidental meeting with a psychic happens to people, but I became a magazine editor, I stuck it out in New York after my father’s death. And, you know, and and I find what you said about, you know, finding the other people who were shocked, that really resonates for me too, because I’m sure people who have been in this situation can relate to this. But so I had a divorced dad. So my brother and I were sort of his only family. And yet he had brothers. But you know, they had their own families, and my grandparents were long gone. So and he had actually just broken up with his girlfriend when he died. So I had this experience of Okay, my brother and I have just moved out into the world on our own.

My mom is saying, Well, I’m the ex wife. So I don’t know what involvement I can have here. So it was a very isolated kind of grief that I was experiencing. And I was just like, Okay, well, I’m just gonna stick it out in New York with this new boyfriend I have who’s just moved here from Seattle for me, you know, so yeah, I really just leaned on him. And didn’t have much of a sense at all of how it might have affected other people. Even though my father was well loved, like he was, he knew a lot of people, like, you know, the funeral was like, almost like that movie, big fish where all these people show up. And it’s like, you don’t know where they came from? Yeah, most of them, but they knew me very well, because, you know, he talked about us all the time. You know, I spent like, a few years just really focusing on my career. And you know, at that time, I was being told guy, it’s really impossible to get a job at a magazine in New York.

And that was my goal. And I said, Okay, well, you know what, I’m going to stick this out, I’m going to make that happen. Because I think I believed if I can just make this happen for myself. And I feel like your story is a little bit like this, too. Like, I got very into my career, and I had this feeling of like, I’m gonna be something despite this tragedy, Mm hmm. And that doesn’t really cure the tragedy. The way I was, I thought, well, I’ll be so happy with everything else in my life, that that whole thing will be taken care of, you know, and I also hated the fact that I felt like a victim. And I didn’t want anyone to see me like that.

So I thought I was going to project this feeling of strength to people if I could do that. So So I think what I was saying was, ultimately, you know, I was at work one day at good housekeeping. And a story came across my desk about distracted driving. And it just felt really faded the way it happened. Because at that, like, up until then, I mean, I think this was like, 2013 is like 10 years after his death. And, you know, I had no idea that the phone really played a part in it at all. Right? I’ve come to since learned that 95% of car crashes aren’t really accidents, like there’s something someone has done that has led to that result. Whereas like 5% would be a true accident, because that means like, something happened in nature, that like, you know, that’s that’s superseded, basically what, like, I think your mother’s case was a true accident.

That she couldn’t help you.

In a way,

right. Well, I disagree.

Oh, no, no, except for the part that you were saying. I thought was really fascinating.

To the tree.

Yeah, no, I

know. It’s so funny. Okay, so here’s another thing.

I thought that was so interesting.

Yeah. I make jokes sometimes about it.

really do that? No, not yet.

Okay, so I make jokes that I think other people sometimes think are inappropriate. But it’s, it’s, I don’t know, I guess it’s like my way of dealing with it. I could deal with a lot of things with humor, but also the idea. Okay, so I’m going to go out into the middle of the ocean now for a second. But the idea that so my, I know, my mother’s body is dead, right? Like clearly like, I’m in reality, I get it. But I don’t think she’s dead. No, I know.

I get that to what I’m saying. Like, I

had a huge conversation with her this morning. I took notes. Like me, like, you don’t mean like that.


sometimes I’ll say like, you know, when my mom died, like she’s dead, like, I’ll say it like that. And I know people are like, Why is she saying it like that? Or just now when I was like, except for the part where she ran into the tree?

Yeah. My dad is present tense. I get it.

Yeah, cuz To me, it’s like, well, yeah, I mean, I don’t know. Like, I guess I just I’m so used to it. Maybe but, um, but yeah, I absolutely think I think I think humans create accidents. Yes. And I think that not paying attention or like focusing where you don’t want to go.

Yeah, it’s part of

like, the accident. Do you know what I mean? Like, no, it’s also part of the

accident. To be more clear. I don’t think anything that ever happened was an accident.

Right? Yes. I

don’t know. I don’t believe in coincidence. I think everything happens the way it’s supposed to happen. Yeah. Really. All I meant is that in the, in the safe driving world, what they like to tell people? Is that it and they do this just to like dissuade drunk driving. Oh, yeah. Driving, because they’re what they’re trying to teach people is that there are actual behaviors that are leading to something. Yes, yeah. And apparently like the word even the word car accident that was invented by car companies, which I never knew until recently, that like they, they created the word because they thought if they could say that, then they wouldn’t be liable for what happened to someone while operating their machine.


Yeah, I thought that was really, really fascinating. So

you’ve really done a lot of work in terms like I haven’t given any thought to the actual driving, but you’ve gone into like, the driving side of it. Well, like the safety, I think, because we each do our own thing, right to like, make sense of

it sounds like you I don’t really do that anymore. But yeah, but my way in, that’s how you Yeah, you know, who I was, you know, so this is like seven years ago, eight years ago now, who I was at that time was, you know, I was a copy editor at a magazine, which, you know, you know, copying is it’s just spelling and grammar. And it’s a very technical kind of job, but almost logical kind of job. And I thought it was so interesting.

You had a show recently, where you talked about leaning into, I think it was the dream expert, she was talking about leaning into the like the dominant part of you versus like the not so dominant part. So yeah, I was, I was really leaning into my analytical side. And when I found that article, you know, I probably would have explained away like, Oh, you know, it’s just a coincidence that, you know, I just happened to see this article on this day, but it really was one of the first moments in my life where I, you know, you get that like burning in your chest where you’re just like, this is real, like, this is like, there’s something else at work here. You know? Yeah, yeah.

Well, like Trish from Episode Two. Oh, wait, she says there are no coincidences.

Yeah, I agree with that completely. And so I knew it was like some higher power in me knew that I had to call the man in the article. And I was terrified to do that, because I think I knew my life would change, if I did that. And I was kind of content, just the way that I was. And I called him and, you know, of course, that was what my soul needed me to do. And he encouraged me to come and tell my story, to a high school.

And, and that really just opened the doors for me, because then I had, like I said, I’d become a runner around the same time. So then I just started raising money, you know, both for his foundation and for other people’s foundations, then, you know, I was recommended to go meet with the National Safety Council in Chicago. And, you know, that’s where I’m getting this information from, because when you go out there, they really train you. And, you know, statistics, and like, you know, tell your story based on, all of these people are dying, and all these people are being injured. And you know, here’s what we can do about and I think what I liked about it at that time, was this feeling of control.

Well, yeah, it tapped into that technical side of you, too, right? Like,

yeah, the journalist and me, you know, wants there to be an answer for everything, and a logical way. Yeah, I didn’t understand then that I actually am an extremely intuitive person, and empathetic and, you know, I think that was something that really plagued me for most of my life is that probably my greatest gift is my intuition, and my ability to connect with other people. And that was being almost completely neglected.

And I was very much this person who just sat at a desk behind the scenes and just like edited other people’s stories, right. So I had to really push myself to get out there and talk about this because, you know, I as I said, I felt very alienated by what happened to my dad, I felt angry about it. You know, these are emotions that I was really uncomfortable with. I had been diagnosed with depression when I was a teenager. I spent like a week after college Where I think I had a doctor that put me on like, Well, I know, doctor that I’m still not super comfortable talking about, but I write about it.

I had a doctor, after he put me on like 13 different medications in one year when I was about to graduate college. And it was like, not as many as nine at one time, when it was just too many, you know, I finally got to see a good doctor after that. And she was like, we have to get you off all of this. And it was too many for me to do on my own. So I went to hospital for a week after graduation, and they got me off all but one of them. And, you know, I just I had my own secrets, I guess is my point. Yeah. Like that, you know, and my dad was like that as well, actually. So I think I learned from the best.

You come by it, honestly.

Yeah, yes. Um, and, you know, I just, I was really good at being hide in hiding, you know, that was my comfort place and wanting the world to believe I was something that I wasn’t. So I think something I mean, new, okay, if you go out and tell this, then you’re gonna have to tell everything eventually.

Oh, right. Yes. Yes. Like, like, they’re, like, almost like a reckoning where I’m gonna have to be totally okay with everything in my life. For me to be able to tell this. I, somebody said to me years ago, whatever you seek to cover, others will seek to uncover. And sometimes people ask me, why do you tell everything on your website or on your podcast? Like, I mean, I shared all the story. And that’s why, because I don’t want to have any, like, there’s nothing anybody could come at me with. I wouldn’t be like I talked about that. Episode. 74. You know what I mean? Like, there’s nothing and I think that that’s like a powerful place to be. So that’s like, kind of where you needed to get before you could take like that next step.

Yeah, I was, I was terrified. I was because I didn’t I didn’t understand that that was a point of strength. You know, I had been hiding it myself. And I didn’t what I would say things like, Oh, well, nobody will understand this, or everyone will judge me for it. But I mean, even part of why I became a journalist was because of hiding it. Because I liked that feeling of having a voice of authority. And I thought, you know, if I don’t have that as my profession, I don’t have that voice of authority, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. So then how did you get to the point where you found this?

This list? I

think it was sort of like a situation with you know, before I say that, though, I really want to say I feel terrible about saying that your mom’s duck was an accident? Because that wasn’t what I meant. Oh, um,

do you know what I think? I think it was a we made a contract before we were born.

Yes. Where she was going to do that she

was going to opt out some way. We didn’t know what, when, but there was going to be multiple ways that she could do it. And then I had to do something else. And now I am beginning to do that.

And I’m happy that you just said that, because I just reminded me of where I was going before because I was talking about me and my accidental meeting with a psychic, which as we know, are no, right.

Yes, yes, yes. But don’t feel bad that you said that at all. If I had a problem with it, I would have said, Oh, that hurt my feelings. And then we would have gone from there.

So I just wanted to bring it up, because I wanted to explain that that is like the nomenclature that they teach you. When when Yes,

kind of totally. That makes sense. Totally. Yeah. So


so the accent only with a psychic happened because I had gotten to a point where, you know, I was taking on sort of freelance jobs in addition to my full time work. And someone had hooked me up with this woman who was like a life coach, and she was writing her memoir. And like, I just kind of had a phone meeting with her. And in the middle of it, she’s like, Oh, yeah, I’m a psychic, too. And she’s like, Oh, your dad has a message for you. Oh, and I’ll just like, do I have permission to tell you and what are you going to say? No.

You’d be like, no, and then you’d wonder about it the rest of your life. Yeah, that’s what she say.

She’s like, Oh, he’s around you a lot. And, and she said that his message was don’t compromise yourself.


what did you compromise me out?

It freaked me out. Because that is so how he would talk. Today, and yeah, I think it was sort of like, you know, who even knows what that meant? But I think it was I was making decisions where I was very much people pleasing, and I was really just trying to be liked all the time. And I wasn’t what did you see that like the light just changed in here?

But anyway,

I wasn’t or not or not weird.

I wasn’t fulfilled because I wasn’t being totally authentic. Yeah. So and and then she said, what what you just said, she said, Yeah, you know, there was a contract. He was supposed to live the life that he lived, and you’re supposed to write a book, and you’re supposed to be like in response to that. And keep in mind this is like way before finding the list or having an agent or writing a blog. I get full body chills when you said that, too. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. Yeah, cuz I was like, I think I found the listing almost exactly a year later.

So nobody knows that listening knows what the list is.

My brother moved into a new house. And he found this little almost like a marbles pouch. And it had folded up notebook paper in it. And he and his fiance looked at it. And they said, Oh, you know, we need to show this to Laura. So my husband and I, we had just we were newlyweds just gotten married six months earlier, I was still kind of reeling from the fact that my dad wasn’t there at my wedding. It was like very, very difficult for me. So I’d gotten through that I’d survived it. And I think it was like, one of those. I think that Maxim when the student is ready, the teacher will come true.

Because I at that point really started doing some of that work I was talking about where I was speaking in front of people and being more authentic and pursuing something I was passionate about. I wasn’t compromising myself anymore. That had gone on for maybe two years. So you know, that’s why when that psychic said that, to me, it really resonated because I thought, okay, I’m really trying not to do that anymore. And when I found it, it was like, we just started reading it and my brother’s kitchen and it here, it was, like, you know, this, I found out later, he wrote it the year I was born. So it wasn’t like he knew he was, I mean, obviously you don’t cry, you know, you’re gonna die that way.

So it wasn’t really even totally a bucket list. It was more like a life goals list. And I’ve come to find since and this is really weird, but like these notebooks of his and he was a writer, too. So a lot of it is his writing. These notebooks of his just show up at the most perfect times. Like I’m finding Oh, he was really into intention. He was really into law of attraction. He was a big fan of Napoleon Hill, who was one of the first like, you know, thinking grow rich. Sure. Yeah. Even had like a declaration to self he wrote when he was 22. That was your dad.

He’s like, my kind of guy.

He was very, very intentional. So I think I think that’s where the list came from. I think he probably had been reading about what happens when you set intentions. Yeah, that’s what what motivated him to do it because people have said to me, like, who did that in? 1978? You know, but yeah, he did. I think as a parent, he was very intentional as well. Yeah. Sometimes I I think, you know, almost like, what if the list was always meant for me? And what a because he set this intention to do it and became a parent at exactly the same time, he unconsciously or his subconscious, almost planted these abilities to do these list items into his daughter. I know that sounds very woowoo.

Totally sounds normal to me,

like, what is what I’ve experienced is it’s been like,

I’m thinking like, what if? Well, now, I would get really funky on you. But what if he was? What if he made the list, knowing those were things you would do?

I don’t know list of things.

It was a day, just right. Like his subconscious contract knew that he had to do this thing. Like what is that is like, like a contract thing where we do things, and we don’t know why we feel compelled to do them. But it’s because we made this agreement.

Yeah. I love

I mean, I could talk about all of the, like, all of the possibilities for hours. Okay, so he writes this list, your brother finds this list, and he’s like, we got to show it to Laura. And what are you? Yeah, and what do you think? Yeah, so it’s a long time. So it’s not like it’s like two months after he died? Like, this is a long time later. Yeah, this suddenly pops up, right.

Yeah. I mean, I felt like the timing was because I had just gotten married. And my brother was going to get married in a couple of weeks. Yeah, it was like, something was happening there where there was this message from him or something almost like gratulations. You know, yeah, you’re saying I’m here.

And like, life is supposed to be full of adventure. Here’s a list of some

that is exactly what I thought and, and the thing that was really, totally life altering, and it’s funny how you can have these life altering experiences that happen, like as quick as a moment, right? Because Yeah, the thing that was life altering to me was, I had been, as I said, working very hard on this activism and coming at it from a very logical standpoint and feeling like I wasn’t quite getting anywhere with it, because I mean, you know, you can’t, I’m just saying my opinion right now. I find that it’s very difficult to change people’s behavior purely by educating them. You know, it’s like, you know, for example, so my husband is vegan, and I became Vegan to two years ago. Okay used to talk about, you know, factory farms and veganism and things like that. And it was like I could hear him. But at the same time, I couldn’t hear that.

Yeah. Yeah,

a sandwich, you know? Yeah, I would only eat vegan when I was at home, but I didn’t when I was outside of the house. And I think there’s something that happens where Yes, people care. Yes. They understand, like, Oh, I’m part of this problem that’s happening to people. But, you know, ultimately, I think we’re all individuals, and we’re making our own choices that are right for us. And I think, you know, I know for me personally, if I make a choice where I’m changing a behavior in my life, it’s because I’ve been inspired by somebody who did that. And someone has shown me Oh, no, life is better this way.

Like, I’m gonna get something out of it, basically. Right. Right. Right. But it has, like, whatever that was, has to resonate with me. So I felt like, Okay, if I do, because I did, at that point, want to write a book about him. And I thought, if I do that, it has to be happy, it has to be inspiring, it has to be something that, you know, is a story that people like, just for the sake of the story, not because I’m trying to like, you know, change them. Right. So, when this happened, it was just like this moment of acknowledgment, like, he’s he is telling me right now, these are your chapters, this is your book, this is who I was using this, which is hilarious, because he was a writer, as well, he self published a book.

There are so many similarities now between the structure of the book I’m writing and the book that he wrote, it’s weird. For me living out this legacy of business coming to life on these pages. And it became like this collaborative thing, which, you know, I think it had been collaborative all along for those 13 years. But, you know, similar to what you discuss on, you know, my favorite podcast of yours so far with your friend. I just wasn’t aware of it. I wasn’t awake to it. And, you know, I had had little things happen since his death, like, you know, he died on August 8, so I would see like 88 at opportune moments, and it happened a lot in the first year to a point where I was like, Am I going crazy? Like, why do I keep saying this number? I made this agreement with him in my head, like, okay, when you when you’re showing me this, such as you saying, Hi. And that that’s what it is. Now, I’m going to be okay with that. You know, I thought he was a singer, and he loved music. So, you know, certain songs would play. And it’s like, oh, that was like, his favorite song, you know? And so it was songs.

What are your songs? Because I have a song so many.

Well, he used to, he told me once he had, he was a very spiritual person, actually, too. I you know it I should say my dad’s name was Mick because I never actually saw his why that is, but you know, just kind of a cool name.

I feel like a love. It’s kind of a cool name. Your dad was cool.

Irish. Oh, he was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a larger than life person. You know, yeah. He was an entertainer. He was funny. He sang in piano bars. You know, he was like an advertising salesman, most years of his life. But he did that on the side. And what songs he told me once he had this experience, where he was in a diner, and people started walking in the door and the song, what a wonderful world came on. It was playing that he felt like he was watching the lyrics of the song play out in front of like, a, like a movie. Yeah, yeah. And there was something about that exchange that really stuck with me. So that that became for me, like a song. That was him saying I’m here.

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t, sorry, good. I was just gonna say my mom had this, um, this Oregon, like piano like an Oregon that my grandmother had. And my grandmother gave it to my mother. And my mother was so excited about it. And we were not a musical family. Like, that was not a thing. So I remember she got this, Oregon, and we were all like, what are you gonna do with that? Like, nobody knew how to play. And so she taught herself how to play one song. And so she played that song every time. Like something happened. Do you know what I mean? Like, I’m gonna play the song. And she would play let it Let it be.

Oh, I

love that.

And I hear Let it be. I see. Let it be. I like once I was going through a difficult moment. And I ran into this woman literally ran into her and she was like, Oh my gosh, and like, put her arms out like to study me. And she had a tattoo that said, Let it be.

So that’s so weird, because that’s what that song was written about. Like, you know, the origins of that song. Of what have

Oh, if Let it be.

Yeah, yeah. It’s mother, man. It’s his mother. Right? Well, McCartney’s mother Yeah. And you read yesterday about her too?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let it be is one of my things. I see it everywhere and hear it everywhere. And in fact, one of my girlfriends is Did started like she’s a she is a music teacher and she has a music school and she just started doing an online component. And she posts she might be listening to this. She I think she listens to the show. But she posted about how her students on the online piano course were, had submitted their very first song that they had to do.

And she’s a friend of mine, but not a close friend. Like I don’t know if she knows anything about that song and me and my mom. And I just knew I was like, it was in her Instagram stories. I was like, I am gonna swipe right. And I promise you that’s the song. I just knew it. And there it was. And they were all singing Let it be. And I just let him sing it to me.

So great. Yeah,

yeah, it’s funny how those things show up now probably for you too, right all the time.

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I, one of the things I was really fretting about with my wedding was like, Okay, well, what will the songs be that I walked down the aisle to? You know, because I was very sad about the fact that he wasn’t gonna be there. Yeah. And it was like, one night it was almost like, like I said, this is, you know, I found the list after the wedding. But I was already starting to have these sort of connections with him even before that, but they really amped up after I found it. But all of a sudden, one night, the songs just appeared in my head. And my brother thought that was a little weird, because he was like, he was my, we called him my man of honor.

And he was helping me with the music selections. That was part of one of his chores. You know? And yeah, yeah, horrible. It was a horrible Browder’s. Me, I really wasn’t. I was probably like, the most easygoing guy you’d ever you ever met. But he’s a singer as well. And so he was like, Okay, so those are the songs you’re going to use. And it just came to me and one of them was, there is love by Peter, Paul and Mary. One of them was, I think that’s what it’s called. Do you know that song?

I know Peter, Paul and Mary. Yeah, I’m sure I like no, no, I

heard it. I think that’s what’s called. Um, yeah. And then another one was Annie song.

I love that song to john Denver. Mm hmm.

And when I told my mom what the songs were, those are another third one was Moon River, which was a connection I had with my husband. And but when I told my mom the first two songs, she said, your father sang those songs to me at our wedding.

Oh, gosh, creepy and amazing. And I don’t mean creepy in a bad way. I got cold chills from it. That’s awesome.

Yeah. trying to come up with songs that would represent him. And I didn’t know that. Yeah, yeah. My brother. So, um, sometimes, so maybe that’s what made me think of it. But yeah, and then even the song. You know, I dance with my brother instead of my dad with a father daughter dance. And I just thought there has to be like, I didn’t want it to be a sad song. You know, I want to just be Yeah, so I picked Stevie Wonder’s I just called to say I love you.

Yeah. And I’m not even kidding. Like, the day after I had this experience was when I went to Chicago, for the National Safety Council thing I was telling you about, like the whole, yeah, advocacy training. I got to the airport. It was like 5am. And they were like, Oh, we want you to appear on the radio tomorrow morning. And you know, we’re starting this new campaign. And we’re using the Stevie Wonder song I just called to say,

I see. So there’s so many things. And

I think sometimes I think people listen to my show, because they’ll message me and say, like, you have so many magical things that happen, but everybody does. Right. And you just gotta be open to it. You got to be noticing, that is so cool. Like, you’ve had some strong things happen. Or more than that. I

mean, then yeah, what happened with the list was when I had that moment where we found it, and I just knew, you know, like I said, I knew this is this is what’s gonna form the book, like, I have to go on this adventure, you know, and that’s, that was the nature of my relationship with my dad, in many ways he would take us on these hikes in the woods. And, you know, like, he used to call me the navigator of like, he had like little nicknames he gave us and, you know, it was like, I had to find our way out.

And everything was sort of always an adventure for us. And it was like, This reminder of he was this adventurous person. And I, you know, even though I’m at this stage in life, I can still go on an adventure. But, you know, I just all of a sudden, when I knew I needed to do this, even though a lot of it seemed really impossible. I just saw him in the back of my head, like that phrase they use like in my mind’s eye. Yeah. All his face nodding and smiling. And hello.

So you found this that you found this list ahead? What 54 things is that we said yet?

Well, I had 60. But he had actually checked off five of them and he marked one of the most having failed. Okay,

so it’s a list of, like adventures, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so can you tell us what some of the things on the list? Yeah,

I mean, it’s anything from, you know, runtime miles straight. You know, he was pretty athletic, but he was like, you know, towards this middle age. He was he was sort of always a little, he’s gonna hate that. I’m saying this but carry extra pounds. Yeah, it’s a is 200 and blah, blah. That’s how he said. his weight all the time. And he just really loves sports. So like it made sense that there were sports on there, like, run 10 miles straight, which he probably like I can understand why he maybe never did that. Surf in the Pacific Ocean, you know, and that was one of the ones I was referring to earlier where I started to feel like okay, uncertainty is welcome. It’s not something I should be afraid of. Because that was really, really difficult for me.

So, so you get this list and you see this list. And then you’re like, I’m gonna do the things on this list.

Yeah. And a lot of it’s like travel. Some of it is simple stuff, like, grow watermelon. Okay, it is like very sweet. Give my children the most love be the best example and give them the best education. I can. Yeah, sing at my daughter’s wedding. You know, like, yeah, me and my wife feel young, happy, healthy and pretty every day of her life.

Yeah, yeah. So so you get the list, you see the list, you read it, and you’re like, I’m gonna do these. I, there’s a book in me, this is what it’s going to be about. I’m going to do these adventures, and then I’m going to write about it.

Yeah, pretty much. Um, I felt I was on the verge of being ready to do that. But it’s like, it just was this push. And and my husband said it almost simultaneously as I was thinking it, which is good, because he ended up being the person who has helped me destroy that. So yeah, he said, What to do it this is your to do this. This is your button?

Yes. Yeah. My brother. What was the first one you did?

Well, I was already a runner. So I did run 10 miles straight. Okay, yeah. And you know, the thing that started happening with it was something I really never could have expected. People just started helping me. So when I was going to do run 10 miles straight, you know, I had actually already signed up to do the LA marathon. The one that I had done was the New York Marathon, like the year before. And I think I did it because I was upset that Hillary Clinton lost an election. And I was in this like, forum of her like, you know, feminism online. And they were like, Oh, you know, do something positive with your disappointment.

So I thought, Okay, I’m going to do something for for little girls to try to, like, raise their self esteem. So I signed up to do the LA marathon for this charity called Girls on the Run. Oh, yeah. So I would just be like raising money for them, basically. And they teach cool girls, because I really wished I had become a Runner Runner other younger age, I started five.

So that’s a cool program.

Yeah, so I was doing that already. And I told my my best friend who lives in Los Angeles, you know, okay, I’ll just run the first 10 miles without any walking at all. And then I’ll like, kind of run and walk the last 16. And she’s like, you’re gonna be exhausted. If you do that, you know, like, you’re gonna be too tired to finish it. And so, like, out of nowhere, she just sort of was like, I’ll do it with you. Because we found out you could split the distance. If you’re doing charity. Yes, you did the first half. And I did the second half, which made it a lot easier for me, because after I finished those 10, then it was like, as I was like, a run Walker, I had never, you know, run 10 in a row, which really is a totally different mindset.


So really, I only had three left after I did that, and it was a lot easier. But I just never expected that I never expected her. And I think she was surprised by it. She said, I’m gonna do that, because she already lived in LA anyway. But she really had never been a runner. She she had just done her first five K. So I think so it was like

things and people and opportunities, just like kind of came forward to help you put all these

magical things started happening, just, you know, I would. I’ve finished about 39 of them. Now. I have 15 left to go. But after a while, I just started calling it list magic. Because as much as you know, I’m like I said, I’m a journalist. I like to research things. I like to be prepared. But as much as I would prepare for something so many things happen that I can’t possibly, you know, you can’t possibly prepare for like just you hear

serendipitous things. Do you have a website where you have them listed? Like what’s

on the list? And my list com?

My father’s list.com so people can go there to see the list and see what you’ve already accomplished.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the other thing, you know, you were talking about those little coincidences that happen like, that wasn’t the first time that I ended up, you know, like I said, I saw his face like nodding and smiling in my head. I just started getting these little like, phrases from him. Sometimes when I was like, especially scared of something I was doing. It would be like, you know, something like changing history or keep your eyes on the ball.

You know, or one time it was born for this. And it’s like, Where is this coming from? Like, I’m not I’m not someone who’s great at giving myself advice. For at least I wasn’t that time. And every time that was the kind of phrase he would use, and I’ve since like, I’ve kind of studied that since then. And I’ve learned that that’s pretty typical of some kind of like spiritual communication. I don’t know if you have any experience with this, but it will be like a two or three word phrase or, like, I think the dream expert you talked to was referring to this. It’ll be like a play on words. Yeah,

yeah. Kind of Do you?

Do you find it come like you hear it in your head?

Yeah, I know. It’s inside. Not very often. But in the beginning, I heard it a lot.

Yeah, yeah. So it’s inside. It’s not something you hear audibly outside.

Oh, no, no, no, I’m not hearing voices. It’s a it’s like a mind’s eye kind of thing. And another really weird thing that has happened to me is, you know, as I’m sure you can imagine, I have a lot of friends who are distracted driving advocates who have lost someone. So I am often with people who have experienced a severe loss in their in their life. And, you know, I’ll get something from from one of their loved ones sometimes. Yeah, yeah. And it’ll be like your friend was describing, like when she said that, that the phrase will repeat itself until you say it like it won’t leave you alone. I said, in my head, I was like, Oh my God, that’s exactly what it’s like, like, I leave now.

But sometimes I’ll be, I’ll be talking to her. And she’ll be like, Can you just stop for a second? Because I gotta just say this. And then she’ll just say whatever it is, and then she’ll be like, Okay, keep going. And I’m like, I can’t keep going after you just said what you said.

Yeah. No, it’s like, you don’t want to say it, because it sounds rude. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don’t know if I should say this, this person, but it’s keeps repeating. So I better say it. And I happened to me recently with a friend. And she’s like, No, no, please just say it. And then I did. And she said, Oh, yeah, that’s what he used to say to me all the time. Yeah. And and it’s like, okay, I call it

I call it the underwater speakpipe.

Oh, tell me about that.

So it comes from my right hand side, and as I am, and that’s where I feel like back right back, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I imagine it comes through a tunnel that looks like a stick of butter. So in my head, that’s what it looks like a stick of butter. So it’s like a, like a rectangular tube, it comes through.

Okay, and

I just know, it’s not me, it feels low. So I feel it coming in low. And it is I call it the underwater speakpipe. Because it feels like it comes like under, like where I am, do you know what I mean? Then comes up to me, and then I feel it

like a dream, a dream feeling?

Yeah, and I don’t hear it. I don’t necessarily even hear the words, I feel the words. That’s the only way I can describe it. But I do it every day. And I too, and I and I am text out what I hear to my text. I have like a text community. And so then I just text out whatever it is, I hear, because it’s always something I’m supposed to tell people. It’s, it is hard to describe to people that haven’t done it. But I have been really paying attention. And I think I can teach this. I am going to teach the people inside my alchemy collective, I have a membership, and I’m going to teach them how to do it. Because I think I’ve gotten to the point where I know what the steps are. Because I think anybody can do it, where you can hear the messages that are being sent for you.

You know, I’m happy you’re saying that about because I’m sure people are listening to this and thinking how, you know, how does that happen? How, how can I do that? And I’m not someone who was like, Oh, yeah, I’m a psychic. Like, like I said, I was a pretty logical person and was not in touch with that part of myself. In fact, I was afraid of that of the sensitive part of me because I had been diagnosed with depression and Medicaid, etc, etc. So, you know, I think one way that you can get in touch with that, or at least what my experience has been, is really just facing, like I said, those secrets that you have that trauma, the thing that has caused you the most pain in your life, if you’re able to just take that out and look at it. And and for me what that meant was starting to write about starting to write about some of the present day experiences I was having with a list. I also had to write about, you know, my life and my relationship with my dad and my past.

And that meant really getting on paper. Okay, here’s what His funeral was like. And, you know, here’s what the hospital was like. And I was really terrified to face those stories because they were wrapped up in pain in my head. And it made me feel a lot of shame. But it was like once I had the experience of writing them out, and not only writing them out, but having them be connected to a larger story, which was my life. I kind of got out of this habit of thinking, Okay, I have two lives I have before the car crash and after the car crash where I’m like two different people that went away from me instead, I just became I’m still olara this is still my life. This is a part of my life. Like I owned it in a way and I think it wasn’t until I could do that. At that I could free up enough space and energy for some of those messages to come through. Yeah,

yeah. I have often said that there’s like the before my mom died and the after my mom died. Yeah. And that I knew I had healed when I could feel that the line between those two and I’m a beach person. So in my mind’s eye, it looks like sand. So like there’s the before, which is like wet sand, and then the after, which is dry sand. But when the line between them, it was like I had taken my toes and just blurred the line. So that they just blended instead of Yeah, instead of a line. And then I remember, I remember the day that I was like, Oh, it’s different. Now. It’s not then and now it’s my progression.

What happened on that day? Are you remember specifically,

I had done a lot of I had done a lot of NLP, I had done a lot of neuro linguistic programming on myself to heal that I had a lot of judgment about. I had a lot of judgment about who I was that I wasn’t worthy of having a mother that would stay as odd as that might sound to somebody that doesn’t have an experiment. Right? Yeah. Doesn’t sound odd to you. And, um, and then, you know, there was a lot of things in terms of my life, because I was still in high school. When that happened that then my, my dad got remarried. And that really became his focus. And so I felt very adrift, like I had been abandoned.

You know, I know he did the best that he could. But at the time, if I felt like I, if I had been important, then he would have paid more attention to how I was doing, you know, if I had been enough, he would have worried and checked in with me and all of those things. And so I let that guide me in my decisions for a long, long time. And really, I would say, you know, I mean, it wasn’t even. I mean, it was probably like, I mean, there’s been healing that has gone on, but I did a tremendous amount of healing probably like eight or nine years ago. So like, it was recent, you know, because I’m almost 50 my mom died when I was 16. So when it got to the point where I was like, I can’t you know how you mentioned, you’d get really mad, I would wake up in the middle of the night like raging mad.

Oh, and I feel so much better now. Thank you for Yeah, yeah, totally. for you that that happened. But

yeah, but I think that that’s it. So I would be super focused. And I think I’ve talked about this on a show before where I talk about forgiveness. But I realized that I would be raging mad, like at my dad, for example, are raging mad at his way for raging mad at Who cares? Who do you know what I mean? Like whoever it was. And again, I want to just reiterate, it wasn’t that they had done something wrong. It was that I was interpreting it as, as if there was something wrong with me that they didn’t do what I wanted, or needed them to do, right. But they were dealing with their own pain and suffering and whatever else.

So anyway, so I woke up one night, in the middle of the night, having one of my rages super mad, and I wouldn’t like it’s not like I was like, throwing stuff, but I would be so mad, I couldn’t stay in bed, you know. So then I get up and I’d read or I do something else, but or I’d write or journal or whatever. So, one night, I got up, and I was like, they’re not up, work thinking about me. I’m up thinking about them. So it’s not their problem. It’s my problem. And if it’s my problem, that like empowers me to heal it so I can heal it. And that’s really when I was like, I started meditating, I would ask, like, I would ask Archangel Michael, come down and take this from me come down and take this pain and come and take it

every day I

would meditate. I mean, it probably took about a year honestly, of me meditating and asking like begging Take it, take it, take it, take it, take it, take it, take it. And then actually, I remember one day I was at a stoplight. And I felt it come down and take it. Like, I know that that’s the weirdest thing. But I just was like, it just left. It just left. It’s gone. And I have not like I’ve been like, it’s good. So meditating, I did some NLP and just shifted things so that then I could become empowered, you know. So then I was able to start podcasts and take the show to a place where I could share all of this stuff because I was in a place empowered if I was still in a place where I was a victim. Right? And where I was like Poor me. I just couldn’t have been on the path that I’ve been on.

And that was the origin of the podcast that moment.

No, but it was the way that I could actually do it was going through all of that. I don’t think I would have gotten to the point where I would have been like, I’m going to do a podcast, you know, I would have been too injured to talk about a lot of the things I talked about.

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s amazing. Saying that you were able, you know, and you know, I’ve heard you talk about that on the podcast before that when you ask for help, it does eventually arrive. But I think your friend Trish was saying people don’t know to ask for help. They don’t. And I think similar to kind of how I was, for most of my life, actually, we have this beliefs for some reason. And I don’t tend to like talking about people, you know, generalizing like this. But I do think it’s true that a lot of people kind of feel like, you are separate from the divine from God. Yeah, I think so. We’re here. And we’re just trying to do our best to be good people. And what we’re taught that,

I mean, I was taught that I grew up Catholic, and I was taught that that it’s like, separate and it’s a man.

I just realized something so cool. When when you said that, which for some reason hasn’t hit me before. You know, this whole time, I’ve been thinking how, how amazing is this, that I keep meeting new people who become my friends who want to help me with the list. And you know, my own family, I’ve become close to in a different way, because they have some kind of expertise with me, I somehow have a relative or a friend who can do something that’s on the list.

But really offering your services that way. And when you’re not being paid, you know, you’re offering your time. It’s a very generous act. And I think it affects them as well when they do that. But what had never occurred to me before it was what it’s like, as much as I have these spirits here on Earth, who are like a whole family in a way that that are helping me. What if I also have spirit guides who are like that? Like, what if I also have a whole group of people rooting for me? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Your name? Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Give me sick. Yeah.

Well, and think about like, to this morning, I did a meditation and I felt I could see a room with all of my ancestors, like everybody standing there. Do you know what I mean? Like crowds of people, all looking at me, saying, like, Oh, we went through that. And now you can do this, because we went through that. So like, it gave their life purpose. So the more we do, like, as you do this list, you’re giving purpose to everybody that went by, you know, your dad, your grandfather, your grandfather’s grandfather, probably a grandmother that couldn’t do things that she wanted to do, because it wasn’t the time or the place or whatever,

right? Grandmother totally yet. You know, I’ve actually had the thought what if, like I have, in the time that I’m living in, I almost have more permission to be the man my dad wanted to be? Hmm. And he did. We talked a lot about, you know, just to be clear to your audience, I’m a big time feminist. But we talk a lot about the pressures society, places on women. And, you know, that was a place I was in when I found the list. Because I had just gotten married, I was also sort of becoming a published writer for the first time, you know, like, in national publications, yeah.

But I felt this pressure, who knows where it came from, you know, I don’t want to say just from my family, because I think it was coming from the magazines I worked for, I think it was coming from my friends. Just this idea of, Okay, well, you better be a wife now and a mother and, and buy a house and, and really settle down in a way like, that’s the phase of life you’re now in. And I felt this real, like existential depression, because I thought, well, I don’t know if that’s what my Spirit wants. I don’t know if that’s a life My Spirit wants to live. And so you know, so as much as I was feeling those pressures, I think men have a lot of pressure put on them too. As far as like, you know, you need to be a provider, and your worth is wrapped up in your return.


Even when my dad died, I felt like, you know, I always had this sense that he was somewhat dissatisfied, because he was this incredibly creative person. And he always had these great ideas, and was very anyone would tell you that he just was very much ahead of his time. But as far as the execution of the ideas, it always felt like he got kind of bored, and then we just like, move on to the next one. And like, he just wasn’t quite finishing a lot of them, which makes it you know, kind of ironic that now I’m finishing this list and yeah. Yeah, I definitely feel like and I think this is true of a lot of people who die young. You know, I think a lot of people who, who die young, at least, you know, when you hear about famous people who die young, they they’re very activist kind of spirits. And I’ve read somewhere that what if, like, you know, what, if, as someone who’s on the other side, they’re actually better capable of accomplishing the work their soul is supposed to do? Yeah, yeah. More so than when they were, you know, in a human body because there are elements of our lives of our bodies that limit us.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that thought. I have often thought I have I have said many times, or like said in the meditation, like, as I’m, I don’t know what your meditations are like, but I have I have like these full conversations with people. But I have said like, to my mother, why aren’t you here to help me? And the response that I got was I can better help you in the way that I am like, this is this is I needed to be like this too, in order to actually really help you. So yeah, I think it’s that same sentiment. I love that. So tell people where they can find you. So like, if they want to follow along as you do the last of your things on the list and then, you know, complete the book.

It’s my father’s list everywhere. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and my father’s list. Calm is my blog.

Okay, okay, so they can go there. We can watch as you complete the last of your tasks and who knows, maybe somebody listening will have some magical connection that will help you do something on the list.

You never know. I

have to correspond with the Pope. I have to own Oh, you do? A large house with our own land. That one’s gonna be a tough one. Um, I live in an apartment right now in New Jersey.


what else? What else? What else? I’m going to Vienna at some point when Coronavirus lets me. But you know, so that was one on the list. Yeah. When the pandemic started, my one selfish thought about it was, you know, cuz like I said, before, the uncertainty I was like, Okay, I’m cool with it. But my one selfish thought was, how am I going to write about this? Like, like, how is this living this life that is like an adventure and exciting. I mean, I’m in my house like, yeah, 10 months later, still can’t. But one day I was out running, and I was, I think it was during the election, too. I just was very stressed. And I was kind of saying in my head, like, how can I get past this chaos that I’m thinking about? And I actually, like I said, I don’t hear it as often anymore. But I heard one of those phrases from my dad. And what I heard was, this is for you.


Yes. Weird. How could something that is like, you know, killing 400,000 people. But I don’t think he meant that. I think he meant this time period. Yeah.

Well, I think everything was working for us, right?

Yeah, even what seems bad on the surface can be good. And you know, I needed that time and space for example, to write my book proposal like I needed to separate from the world do

you do you know, when your books coming out? Do you have any I haven’t sold it yet.

My agent.

So my hope maybe there’s some connection there too.

I’ve had some pretty magical things happen with it even just in the past couple of weeks that I can’t really, but it’s very exciting to feel like I have a team working on this with me, you know, like without, you know, it’s a list. I mean, the book is a list item he wanted to write and haven’t been published. Yeah, I’m hoping 2022 2021 maybe I’ll probably be done writing it middle of 2022

Okay, cool. That’s awesome. Well, thank

you so much for coming on the show. This was so fun. And honestly like I love one of my favorite conversations ever. So thank you for coming on.

Oh, that’s so sweet. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I loved it. I learned a lot from you. So this was great.

Thank you so much for being here and for listening to today’s episode. If you liked it and got something out of it, please be sure to share it with me by leaving a review over on iTunes. And if you’re not following on social media, I am everywhere at Betsy Pake but most of the time over on Instagram, so follow and comment on my latest post so that we can connect there. I will see you next week. And until then, keep living big


Meet Betsy!

I'm Betsy Pake!

*Ocean obsessed

*Probably hanging out with my dogs


*Deep thinker

Hey There!

About Betsy

Hi I’m Betsy and I’m a subconscious change expert.
By day you can find me digging deep into the unconscious beliefs and identity of my clients so they can move past self-sabotage and lack of confidence and gain traction in their career and life.