320: Why It’s Important to Create a Space That Works for You with Maddy Kozoyed - Betsy Pake

320: Why It’s Important to Create a Space That Works for You with Maddy Kozoyed


Maddy Kozoyed is an interior designer and the Owner of Whatsoever Things are Loverly, an interior design studio in San Diego, CA helping conscious-minded creatives make their spaces look, function, and feel better.

With a background in design and project management, Maddy Kozoyed knows the impact your environment has on your daily life and mindset. The space around you influences how you feel, the internal narratives you’re telling yourself about your life, and can become a sneaky drain of your precious time and energy.

When designing interiors, Maddy works to rewrite the narrative of spaces to reflect stories of success, abundance, freedom, and ease. She works virtually and in person with her clients to design systems, styles, and feelings to support their mindsets, habits, and goals.

Maddy loves working specifically with entrepreneurs and creatives because it lights her up to learn about the ways business owners are infusing their values with their businesses to create more of what they want to see in the world. She does the same by infusing her clients’ values into their designs, whether that is sourcing secondhand, shopping with sustainable brands, or supporting local businesses.

Maddy believes that when your home reflects and supports your priorities and values, you can show up every day empowered and inspired, ready to share your big ideas with the world.

In this episode, Maddy shares the story behind her business, explains how your space could be negatively affecting your life if you haven’t made intentional decisions, and describes her process of creating spaces that prioritize her clients’ priorities.

* Find Maddy on IG @whatsoeverthingsareloverly

* Visit her website: whatsoeverthingsareloverly.com

*Connect with Betsy on IG @betsypake


Welcome to the Art of Living big podcast. My name is Betsy pake. I’m an author, a speaker, and a trainer of NLP and hypnotherapy. And I’m focused on helping you understand and design your life with the power of the subconscious. This podcast is designed to help you think differently about what could be possible for your life. Now, let’s go live big. Hello. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show today. I’m really excited because I have a guest today, I have my friend Maddie Zoid. Hey, Maddie. Hey, I’m so excited to have you on the show. Tell everybody a little bit about you and what you do?

Absolutely. My name is Maddie Coyne and I own whatsoever things are lovely, which is an Interior Design Studio, helping conscious minded creatives make their spaces look function. And most importantly, feel better.

We say the name of it again, whatsoever. whatsoever things

are lovely. Hey, I really

love this. Thank you. I mean, like, I really love it. Okay, whatsoever, things are lovely. Okay, so keep going. Sorry.

Thank you so much.

I’ll interrupt you constantly.

It’s perfect. I love it. And I, that actually means a lot because there was a lot of intention behind choosing the same and it kind of chose and found me, which I can absolutely share. But it always means a lot when people are like, Oh, this is this is interesting. Yeah. So anyways, that’s that’s what my business is called. And in what I do, kind of the driving factor behind how I got started with interior design is that I just deeply believe that your environment affects your mindset, and that it shapes the stories that you tell yourself about your life, which can be deeply and powerfully impactful. So when designing interiors, I’m working to rewrite the narrative of spaces to reflect stories of success, abundance, freedom, ease. And my process is really built for business owners and disruptors, like yourself and people that are just busy with their world changing work. So together, my clients and I, we design systems, styles, feelings, to kind of support whatever their mindset habits and goals are, no matter the square footage, and no matter what style you’re drawn to.

I mean, there are so many things I’m obsessed with about this. Okay, so I want to dive in. So I want to dive in, because I think there are big ways and little ways that you’re gonna be able to share how we can create this and do this kind of thing in our lives, right to create spaces that help, actually and, and I’m getting ahead of myself, because you get everybody that listens to I starting to hyperventilate, because I’m like, oh my god, I’m so excited. Okay, so I really feel like this leads into the whole thing that I always talk about, which is like identity. So I’m excited to dive in. But I do really want to know how you came up with that name. Like, what is the is there a story there?

For sure. There’s definitely a story there. So whatsoever things are lovely. It was born from an intention to basically find and make room for the most important things in your life, which is like really basic at a level. And interior design kind of found me after the name found me which is just funny that how everything worked out. But I mean, we both know life moves super fast. And if we blink, or just let things happen to us, like we’re gonna miss it. So to capture that intentionality, you have to do two things, you have to know what you enjoy and what you value. And then you have to make it a priority. So when I this was many years ago, back in late college, I was kind of introduced to the world of entrepreneurship. And I had to figure out what that meant to me because I hadn’t had a lot of entrepreneurs model what success looked like. So I thought success was climbing a corporate ladder, becoming a VP and a big media company or something along those lines. And when I was kind of thinking about really pushing that down, that desire down a quote, just popped up in my life, which is kind of funny, because it’s a Bible quote, which is bonkers to me, because that’s not something that’s been particularly meaningful in my life. But the universe just kept sending it at me. And the quote is whatsoever things are true, whatsoever, things are honest, whatsoever, things are just whatsoever, things are pure, whatsoever, things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, if there be any praise, think on these things. And what stuck out to me was kind of this list of what maybe could be those important things that are valuable. And then this idea of thinking on these things. And immediately what popped into mind at that point was my favorite movie, which is my fair lady, and my favorite play, and my favorite. I mean, it’s everything. It’s a book, it’s a play, it’s a movie, and it’s the best and there’s the song and it called wouldn’t it be lovely? Where or it’s really wouldn’t it be loverly which is what there’s an honest Yeah, that’s what my brand name has. You know, the protagonist Eliza Doolittle is singing for her wishes for a better life. And what she mentions is so impactful. It’s rare asked, it’s a warm and safe home. It’s the love of a partner. It’s literally chocolate. And I just thought that that was the perfect mix of everything. And it was so clear to me then that this business that I was trying to build, I wanted to build a life where I could get paid. And I could spend my time working towards helping people find that intention and to make room for those important things in their life. And it just like slapped me in the face at that point. I was like, this has to be what this business name is going to be. And then when I found interior design, I was like, perfect. This is great. We’re singing about a warm and safe home. I’m trying to make more money save homes. This is it. But that’s the name. That’s the history.

So it’s like you backed into it. Like you had the idea for like the business thing before you had the business.

Yes, I knew the intention behind starting a business before what I wanted to do kind of found me and really loves me honest. I allowed myself to explore that route. Yeah, yeah.

So you know, you know who Sara Blakely is, like, dude, yeah, Sandra is my friend Sara Blakely. I met her once at the grocery store. And I have in it, and it’s on Instagram. So it’s real. So I am obsessed with her. And I’ve been obsessed with her forever. And then last year, I was at the grocery store. And there she was. So it was like, Oh, and of course, I accosted her and had my photo taken. But the reason I bring her up is because she wrote down, she was working, like selling copiers. And she pulled over and she was like, Oh my gosh, there’s gotta be more for my life than this. And she wrote down, I’m going to create something that will help millions of women and didn’t have the idea like she came up with it’s the intention first, right? And then we get the the way to actually do that. It sounds so similar.

Absolutely, yes, I can definitely firmly say that that is exactly how my business started. And my entrepreneurship journey started. And I think that, you know, there are a lot of people that are so lucky to have entrepreneurs in their lives, whether that’s their parents, or family members or friends were there as a kid seeing people run their own businesses to be successful. And it’s not that I didn’t have those in my life success was just very much so told to me that it was this one specific thing. And so I think personally, it makes sense that I was chasing what other what I thought was gonna be successful. I’m not gonna lie, this is like kind of an embarrassing moment, but like, I think really like, adds to the pressure of what I felt like coming out of high school and out of college, I was voted Most Likely to Succeed in high school, which was a lot of pressure for an 18 year old. Yeah, my very large high school. And I mean, I was completely honored and flabbergasted. And also like, of course, I’m doing every step of what I’m supposed to be doing. Yeah,

I’ll just should see, we’re like checking off all the boxes.

1,000%, I was shitting myself into oblivion, and checking off all of the boxes. And then when I got into college, and majored in art history, because I didn’t have a high enough GPA to get into the business school as a major, it was this hilarious moment of like, I’m really good at art history, I’m really good at design, I just have an eye for it. I just have a brain for it. And during the pandemic, when my business, really, I mean, I think everybody kind of took time to find themselves, their hobbies, manage their mental health. And for me, I had been dreaming about entrepreneurship for about five years before the pandemic hit. And then I was like, had a mentor actually kind of suggest, hey, what if this is time? What if this is it? And she was the one very successful model entrepreneur that I had? Growing up? I just didn’t know she was an entrepreneur, like I babysat her kids. But I had no idea

what she didn’t know. She did. Yeah,

exactly. But now she’s like, she mentored me all the time. And she’s absolutely there for me to watch. I’m by loving is so handy. So she’s great. And yeah, she basically suggested she was like, what if you what if you lean into this business a little bit more? What would that look like? What services would you offer, and allowing myself to go after what I’m good at? And what I like has been really impactful. So

which was made which which really is the most successful person in your class? Probably right. For Thank you. Yeah, cuz that’s really what I think that’s how I would define success. I was I was friendliest. I got voted friendliest. I think that’s great. It’s great. Now it’s like a 50 something. I’m like, Oh, that’s good. But I remember my best friend got best but and I was very disappointed because I was like, I’m friends with her. I don’t have a good but but now I was friendly to people looking at her but okay, so I love this. So really, this is what I think is success, right? And so you’re able to like listen to your intuition and define this for yourself, which I really, really love. Yes. And, and so tell me because you’re in California, is that where you grew up to in California?

No, I grew up in Southern Virginia, kind of on the border in the Virginia Beach area, but it’s a large area. And so I’m from Chesapeake, which is on the border,

where like a couple of weeks ago, what? My coach lives there. Oh, cool. So I flew in to spend a day with her like a VIP day. Yeah.

Great. Yeah, I went to college in the area and grew up there. And then we moved to DC, my partner and I, after college, and then came out here, just right before the pandemic on accident. We were looking for life change. We’re like March 2020. Sounds like a great time to make a big change in our lives. There’ll be no nobody. And then pandemic is great. No regrets. It’s

wonderful. Yes. And moving from the DC area probably wasn’t that big of a price shock, either. No. Expensive. I used to live in Reston. Yes, yeah. So you show me totally. Okay. I love all this. Okay, so I want to dive in a little bit. So tell me a little bit about when people tell me a little bit about why people need to redefine their space? Like why do they need to do that?

Absolutely. So I think that environments, and your home being an environment that not only you’re in all the time now, especially I

was gonna say, especially with COVID, right, it made this even more relevant. Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. And not only relevant, but urgent. You know, when you’re trying to manage your mental health, your family, your priorities, that balance of rest, and play, if you’re working in the same place that you’re doing that personal development, and you know, your family life in, it can be really hard to make space for all of those things, and manage your mental health and wellness and find that balance at the same time. And essentially, feel good and find your own version of success and, you know, have the capacity and ability to lean into, you know, all the things that are great what your intuition is telling you, you know, your goals in life. So when the pandemic hit, I think there was this urgency all of a sudden to talk about what your home feels like, how does it function? What does it look like? Do you like it? And I think that there’s a really, there’s a conversation that needs to be had about what your home can make you feel in the sense that what are the thoughts that you’re thinking all the time? Or what are the feelings that you’re feeling in your home, just as your existing at home? Yeah, and that is super powerful. And I think that interior design is wonderful. And it’s just kind of flat level beautiful capacity. But there’s so much more that we can be doing to help ourselves find that beautiful balance and that managing of mental health and wellness and, you know, feeling good on a regular basis finding creativity and passion and inspiration. There are so many ways to do that. I think your work does that therapy does that find a community and family does that. Having coaches does that using resources does that interior design can also do that. And that’s kind of the, like, exploration that I’m trying to do. And what I’m trying to show people is that if you are able to and help people with, you know, genuinely through services, like make room for the things that they’re looking to do in their life, so they can continue to manage and balance everything that they have going on and feel really great about it feel really good every day kind of find room for those lovely things, if you will, every day. So that is kind of what what is driving this and why I think that it’s so important because on the flip side of that, if you don’t take not control in a bad way, but control in like an intentional and mindful way of your space, it can absolutely be detrimental to what your thought patterns are and the stories that you’re telling yourself. And I myself have absolutely through many times in my life, then through this, for example, when I had the idea for this business, and I was thinking about okay, what are the ways that I can serve people, I was literally sitting with an iPad, because I couldn’t afford a laptop at the time on the cheapest IKEA couch that I like you could possibly get it was a literal bench with like a hammock of fabric in between these like two metal, you know, posts. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, I can be an interior designer, and I’m sitting here on this couch. What are you even thinking? So, that was kind of,

so Okay, so wait, so let’s go back. So you’re sitting on this like piece of shit Toki IKEA couch, and you’re like, Are you kidding me? I think what was the next part because you kind of blanked out there. So it was it like,

oh, I mean, the next part was impostor syndrome. The next part was self doubt the next part was are you freaking kidding me? Absolutely not. You can’t be a designer, you wouldn’t 100 square feet of space. You can’t afford anything more than that $150 IKEA couch like, how could you possibly think that this could be? And I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel this right, which

Yes, absolutely. And this is just another story, right to keep you to keep you small. Yes,

100%. And not. And that’s the flip side of this. So yes, there’s the and I don’t, you know, I don’t I don’t believe in like, leading through fear, or people making decisions through fear, I’m definitely more into it from a perspective of like, chase your goals, chase your dreams, be able to listen to your intuition, use design to make a space to do that. But the flip side of that, for sure is, when you don’t, there are hundreds of stories that your space could be telling you about your life that could be really detrimental to you, chasing your dreams, living big, listening to your intuition, being able to be in touch with that there’s so much shame, guilt, fear, that doubt that can be kind of infused into you from your space. So that is kind of the work that I’m trying to work through.

So good. How do people know if that is coming? Through their space?

Great question. I think that stories are always coming through spaces through like, my entire degree in art history. Like one of our later classes, we talked about how people think a lot about how art is the reflection of the artist. But in fact, and this is like very well known. Art has influenced society, architecture influences society, people have used design to get things that they want over time, right? We have built cities, and we have built neighborhoods, and we have built, you know, sculptures and art and installations so that people feel certain things take certain actions. So it’s always influencing you all the time. The question is, is there intention? Is there mindfulness behind the space that you’re living in at home, if you like, you know, take the broad concept of how like design impacts people and can be impactful and kind of narrow it down to your home? Yeah, there are I think intentionality and mindfulness are really key to making sure your space is working for you. And that’s a lot of what I love to talk about is not only the stories that it’s telling, but I mean, there’s a there’s the feeling side of things, there’s the functional aspect of things, you know, is your space set up to prioritize your priorities? Is it working hard enough for you so that you can then have that kind of physical validation and encouragement to do the things that you know, you’re here to do? Right. So I think that absolutely, it’s always impacting. And if you have not made intentional decisions about your space, it’s probably in some way impacting you in a way that could be improved.

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So this is a great question. And I think that one that’s so important to ask because I think that What the interior design industry gets wrong is this idea that we have to scrap everything that wasn’t intentional beforehand. Any decision that’s not made by a designer goodbye, like this is out, we’re gonna bring in new stuff that is so wasteful on so many levels, I can’t even begin to get into that conversation. And it is my priority in this business, to design spaces that are sustainable, which in the home industry means using a lot of already what you have, yes, just kind of taking what you have into consideration. And going through, I guess the easiest way to say this without like, you know, fully diving deep into it, because this is a lot of the work that I do with my clients, like takes time. It’s not, you know, like a conversation. But in general, my design ethos is, and strategy is start with the feeling, then move on to function, then move on to form. So if you’re working with a space that is, you know, as particular layout, if you bought a home. First of all, I hope you love your home, I hope that you love the things that you can’t change about it, right location, neighborhood, things like that, like you can’t up and move your house. So that’s kind of important. But when we’re talking about the inside of things, the layout can certainly be tricky. But there’s so much that you can do within the space itself. And I think kind of just like, accepting things for as they are. And knowing that there’s nothing you can do to change that kind of releases a lot of fear, stress around things, right. So like, if you were to live in a really poorly laid out space, for example, sometimes, and I can extend this with so many clients, sometimes just having someone be like, Yeah, this is as good as this is gonna get like, it doesn’t knock down this wall. Were just this is poorly laid out. And I’m so sorry, that you have to deal with this gives people a lot of relief. I’m actually surprised how much but I think it makes sense, right? Once you know, that’s like, okay, can’t get knocked down that wall fine. Moving right along. And I think that there’s so many elements of design that you can play with, from a form perspective, which is why it’s kind of the last one, once you have that feeling in mind. So like, if you were to think about a home, for example, and maybe the kitchen that you have is too small, and you’re trying to feed your family, and you’re rushing around, and everything’s kind of disorganized, and you always feel like it’s too small, it’s too small, it’s too small. This is a narrative, I think that a lot of people have felt, especially during the pandemic is that their spaces are too small. And there are if you identify the feeling, you want to feel instead of that stress that rush that you know, kind of like wild feeling, that can be a North Star for you to then take into consideration the function and then the form to help you kind of like maximize the space that you’re in. So in my kitchen, for example, I love to feel creative when I cook, I love cooking. And I cook mostly plant based food because I think it’s super fun to make like home favorites of like broccoli cheese soup and like chicken Popeye, but because I’m just like, I just think that’s really cool and magical. So I am constantly cooking and constantly trying out new recipes. And it’s a it’s a form of rest. For me, I’m lucky that it’s just me and my partners. It’s not like I’m trying to like quickly feed a family. But for me, it’s that creativity for other people, it might be ease, it might be efficiency, and I have my kitchen laid out and so like knowing that I’m able to move into the function aspect of things, which is okay, now how do I need this space to function? What are the literal things I need to do in this space, I need to be able to have access to my pots and pans I need space on my countertops to chop veggies I need, you know, plates and bowls easy accessible, and I need to have counterspace to be able to like you know, fill those plates as I’m pulling things off the stove or whatever, right? And then we move down to maybe for you it’s like you know, having space to feed your family like having space for a kitchen table so everybody can come together. Maybe that’s the intentionality behind it is like having that space, you want to have a space where all your family can like gather. Yeah, and we moved down to the form aspect of things and so form which is you know, the style of things, the design choices that you’re making, and design choices. When I say that I mean like the traditional choices, color materials, things you’re bringing to your style, style right or to your point things you’re keeping in your space once you have option one feeling and option two, which is the function you now have the knowledge to evaluate should you or should you not keep this thing that helps with that intentionality?

I really love this because they actually can help you make decisions and as you if you go shopping like it’ll help you make decisions. It’s funny because you said in the beginning like I forget how you said it but you said like these are the things that I do and you can do this lots of different ways and you said you do it as a coach, you know, you can do it this way. You can do it this way. And it’s so funny because I help people find their values, like elicit their values, and then they can go out and make decisions because they know what’s aligned with their values. And that’s almost like the same thing. It’s like, this is the feeling I want to have. This is what’s important to me. And now I can choose and it just seems like then you wouldn’t come home with shit that you’re like, it’s not what I need, right?

Exactly. 100% exactly when you know those values. And I’m so glad you brought up values. Because not only is that important in terms of making decisions from like, you know, what’s important in your life standpoint, but I think it’s very impactful to then be surrounded by your values in your home. So when I work with clients, I’m sourcing, based off of their values. Part of our like, initial questionnaire is asking questions about what do you value in terms of, you know, what’s what like, causes and things are important to you? Is it important that your furniture is locally made? Is it important that you’ve got clean ingredients and like, no toxicity? Is it important that you’re sourcing from ethical manufacturing, or we used and recycled products? So I asked a lot of questions around values and sustainability, because then when you back to our like earlier conversation when you’re sitting in your home, and you’re surrounded by the things that you value, that in itself is telling the right story, right? That’s intentional, and the right story. And I think what’s really interesting is that design can be so beautiful, and kind of stopped there. And I’m all about bringing beautiful things into your space. Like, I just think what everybody in the industry is doing nowadays with like, you know, the way that different styles are coming back, and we’re creating, you know, fun and different furniture, there’s a lot of trends that are just like super fun and kind of whimsical, and I love that. And also with that function and feeling part, you can create a really, really impactful style part, right? So you can bring those like fun and beautiful things in your home, but feel really good about it know that your values are reflected. And then to your point about decisions, trust that you made the right decision, right? Because you’re able to be like, Oh, yes, here’s all the background information. Here’s all the design strategy. I had to make this choice. This is the right choice for me and my family,

right instead of just like willy nilly. Absolutely. Yeah. I have recently willy nilly. I bought a blue velvet couch a second. Yeah, so fine, except that I have a dog that sheds. So I basically bought like a giant piece of Velcro. Do you know? Oh, yes. These are things that if I had thought, and I remember I bought it like off an Instagram ad. I mean, I was doing this thing for a little while or I was like every Instagram ad I’m gonna get it and see what it is. And like, it was kind of fun. But then I bought a couch. And then I didn’t measure it didn’t measure I just got it. And it basically takes up my entire condo. It’s just a giant pit.

I love the idea of a blue velvet couch. And I think this is exactly why I go in the order that it works to go in the order, right? Because you have to do that measuring so that you can know that it’s going to fit your space and it’s going to work well and function

right because I didn’t if I had thought if someone said to me was your number one value in your home, I would be like to make it as hair free as possible. Honestly, like it’s the thing that makes me crazy. And so then I went and got a couch that which I’m just like reiterating the fact that what you’re saying is so important because it’s it is like a different way of like organizing your thought process and your decision making process. So then you actually are feeling the way you want to feel.

Exactly. I love that I love the idea that like if I love it, that could be maybe your feeling just like number one priorities are here for you.

I mean, I we have we’ve had two dogs, I had one. And it was a little hair free dog. She was like she was the one of those dogs that doesn’t shed, which just added to her perfection. And then she passed last year and so my husband’s dog is this shedding dog. But it was like the little dog died and Henry the current dog, Henry looked at me and I looked at him and I was like we only have each other now my friend we are about to be very close. So now I can’t like he comes over to see me and I’m like oh rub against the velcro velvet couch and turn it brown. It’s fine. Yeah, this is so so interesting. And I want to say something to and I know you’re already thinking this but like it works the other way too. Like the way that we’re thinking shows up in our environment. If we’re feeling cluttered, if we feel like unorganized, right, it’s gonna show up in our world. And I think that’s like a way right to get a like, do I need Maddie Okay, look around your space. How does it Feel it feels good. You don’t need Maddie. If it doesn’t, then you do.

Right, right. And I think that is also a really important conversation. Because you’re totally right. If your space is cluttered, a lot of times you can be feeling mentally cluttered. And that can be an indication of that. And when you I don’t, I don’t mean fix in like a, you know, this is some sort of magical solve, but like, when you do take care of your space, and are intentional about what you’re bringing into it, and how you’re designing it, and is it a hair free home, are we going to bring in new, you know, when you’re intentional about that, you’re able that that starts the cycle of good feelings, and you’re feeling good in your home, that you’re feeling passionate and inspired and resilient. And you can kind of continue that cycle of, you know, making decisions that work really well for you and tapping into your intuition and then feeling really good about things and kind of just keeping your ball rolling, which is wonderful,

brings your vibration higher and higher and higher and higher. And then all of a sudden, you’re like attracting all the things that you want, which that’s

really literally 1,000% Yeah, so this is just you know, design is just a tool in that sense to kind of help you like raise your vibration along with all of these other things. However, I think I love that you’ve brought up the clutter parts, because I think another really important part of this work that I’m trying to do and why it took me a long time to call myself an interior designer for being honest. Because interior design, the industry requires certain things that tells us we need to be wealthy, we need to have 5000 square foot of space, we need to be filling homes, not strategizing them. It’s what do we what do we put on this empty wall? What do we put in this like third bedroom? Not? How do we fit a family of four into a small condo? And it tells us that clutter is a problem? And this is a problem? I think for a lot of reasons. And why Absolutely. If you were not a person who was you know, there’s a little bit of like self awareness, I think that has to happen to like use your space and to ask yourself, hey, is this a problem? If you’re not a usually cluttered person? If the clutter is stressing you out, then absolutely, it’s probably a problem. But if you’re a person who lives a maximalist life, or may end clutter, or maybe you’re managing ADHD, and it’s not clutter, it’s organized chaos, right? Yes, yeah, can be a part of what we would use and what you can use to inform your design decisions, right? I think it’s so important to like, not try to change who we are as people, but to lean into what works for us as a style and help that as well, like create a style that works for us. And it’s funny that you bring up clutter too, because I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine who sent me a video about how the concept of minimalism which I love from a not a design perspective, which is like something completely separate, but from like a, you know, how you’re constantly living things. Yeah, and living and consuming. They talk about how there was this conversation about how like, oh, minimalist design is kind of coming back into style, because, excuse me, minimalist design being the kind of reflection of how people are living minimalism. So like having not a lot of things on your wall, having not a lot of clutter, using a lot of like really basic color schemes and not having a lot of bright colors. That is a specific design that has come back into style as minimalism has grown. What it has really also said though, is that clutter is not allowed. And that is a conversation that I think is so detrimental to families to people managing behaviors and feelings and tendencies and their best way of living your life and includes clutter, but then also especially like the historical way that people have designed their homes. When it comes to like cultural references and things that are important, right there is a lot of people that find it’s kind of this like cluttered style. It’s it’s not new, it’s in minimalism is kind of minimalism. Minimalism as a design is kind of, like dampering that style and that cultural reference and I think that that’s also damaging. So I think that the more that we can do to like bring in people’s values, like you said, to know how they operate and what’s important to them, we can really find a style and a way to design that works for them. So I love that you brought that up

Yeah, I love that. I like things very like I don’t want the whole minimalist thing I think got to where everything was neutral. And I and and although Some people might really like that I got to where I was like, I like, I like not having stuff around like I would have my house like a hotel. But I like it being cozy. So like color on the couch. And do you know what I mean? Things like that. But I also live with somebody that does not mind the stacks of paper. And do you know what I mean? Like, that’s just not it’s not right or wrong. It’s just he doesn’t mind it. And I do. So we have areas where that can happen. And then areas where that doesn’t happen. And I think that that’s like an important thing that everybody feels like comfortable and that it’s their space, even though they’re sharing space, and they might have different ways of viewing it. Totally, totally. Yeah, that’s such a hard balance.

It is a hard balance. For sure.

Yeah. Where I’m like, bring those papers over here and I will cut you. They stay over there. Yeah. Oh, good. This was so fascinating. Maddie, I like you so much. And I feel I wish you didn’t live in California because I feel like I really liked you. So tell everybody where they can find you and how they can connect with you. And if you know they want to work with you, what’s the best way to connect?

Absolutely. So I’m on Instagram right now at whatsoever things are lovely, lovely. Spelled L O V E R L Y. And I’m also I have a website that’s Whatsoever things are lovely.com. Basically, on whatsoever. Things are lovely everywhere across the internet. But those are the places that I’m showing up the most. So pop in my DMs if you have questions. Yeah.

I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here. It was so so so nice to meet you and to have this discussion. And just to get to see you

say, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. This has been wonderful.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to today’s show. And thank you for sharing the show with your friends. I love when you guys do that. I appreciate it so much. And thank you for leaving me a review on iTunes. I know that it matters because when I go to find a podcast, I always look to see what the reviews are. So it really means a lot to me that you take a minute to like figure out how to even make that happen. Now, if you want to find me find me on social media, I’m usually on Instagram, starting out on Tik Tok. It’s just my name. Betsy pake, and that’s my website to Betsy pake.com. And you can find out all about the work that I do. having me speak for an event that you might be helping to plan or getting trained inside my alchemy Institute. But to make it really easy, if you want me just shoot me a DM shoot me a direct message on Instagram and I will be at your service. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you all next week.


Meet Betsy!

I'm Betsy Pake!

*Ocean obsessed

*Probably hanging out with my dogs


*Deep thinker

Hey There!

About Betsy

Hi I’m Betsy and I’m a subconscious change expert.
By day you can find me digging deep into the unconscious beliefs and identity of my clients so they can move past self-sabotage and lack of confidence and gain traction in their career and life.