In todays episode I talk with my daughter Olive about her journey with mental illness.
welcome to the art of living big i’m your host Betsy Pake i’m an author speaker a master hypnotherapist and nlp coach and i help high achievers rewire for success if you’re ready for the next level you’re in the right place over the next 30 minutes i hope to help you redefine what could be possible for your life now let’s go live big hey everyone so today i have a really special guest on the show my daughter all of has come on the show and i wanted to say a couple things before we dive into this episode it’s an episode about mental health and it’s about our personal journey with mental health you know this episode all of and i have talked on and off about her coming on the show she’s very deep thinker like i think she could come on the show and we could have some really deep discussions about the world and the universe and all things political and like i mean we could dive into a lot of things she’s super smart and like very thoughtful and so i do want to make the point that it was her idea to come on and talk about her mental illness now i’ve mentioned before on the show things like you know when my daughter was sick or those kinds of things because it is part of my story too but this specific version what we share today is hers it’s her story and so i wanted to make sure that you knew that it was her idea i mean she’s an adult she’s 19 but it was her idea she wanted to share it she feels like perhaps the story and what we went through might help somebody not feel so alone and also maybe give somebody ideas if they’re struggling with somebody else in their family or someone that they love that that has a mental illness and also to normalize it a little bit you know it’s not like shameful or bad it’s something that we have gone through and that we’re dealing with a couple other things that i want to say is that we’ve talked a little bit on the show about medication and also about not taking medication and if you are in this world of like mental health then you know there’s like a lot of very passionate sides to that equation and i just want to ask that you know it was a choice that we made and you’ll hear us talk about it but a choice that we made that was not an easy choice but it was a life saving choice and so i just want to say that many times i’ll get emails about shows and i love that i love the feedback even the feedback that’s not positive i like hearing how it made you shift or think or or like take into account your feelings on it and this is going to be one show that i’m just going to ask that i that i’m not looking for any advice and that’s kind of hard for me to say because i always want feedback but in this particular case you know what we talked about on this show you’ll hear is very dramatic and it’s not even a sliver of what we went through and so i have heard every piece of advice and you know we have explored probably any option that you could think of and so i just ask that with respect that we’ve been through so much it’s just an episode for us to tell our version of the story and we’re not doctors so this isn’t any kind of medical advice or suggestions for you it’s just our story the last thing that i want to point out and i didn’t realize it until i struggled a little bit with having her come on because she’s 19 she’s an adult but a lot of things about our brain are not fully formed until we’re 2425 and part of that is is there’s a consequence piece and so i wanted to listen to it again before i put it together to air it because i wanted to make sure i wanted to protect her you know there’s a little bit of a scary thing of sharing all this too but when i went through it and listened one of the things that i noticed and this is something i’m really happy about and so i want to point it out because if you’ve been here for a while listening to the show you know that i love language and words and how we say the words creates our reality and one of the things you’ll hear her talk about how i have depression she doesn’t Say I am depressed. And as I listened through, sometimes when she talks about it, anyone I talk about it, we talk about it. It’s not it’s separate from her. And when I went through and listened, it has become so natural to us. But I remember there was a time where that was a fight, where I would say, don’t say it like that. And so now that has become just part of how we talk. And I want to just point that out, because I think it’s a really good, a really good takeaway for me after I listened to the show again. So anyway, I’m really delighted to introduce you to my daughter. And to, to have you share on this show, so thank you so much for being here. And thanks for listening. Let’s go to the show. Hello, fellow adventurers, welcome to today’s show. So today, I’m really excited because I have a very special guest, a guest that is very near and dear to my heart. In fact, she has been closest to my heart than anyone else on the planet. So all live, welcome to the show. tell everybody about you and who you are. Hi, I’m Betty’s daughter. I’m Olive. Um, I don’t know what to say. What do I say about myself? Well, you’re 19 I’m 19. And you’re Aquarius. I like long walks on the beach. Who loves the beach? More? You were me? Definitely mom. Yeah. So we were talking last night. So all of an eye last night, we’re having like this big conversation, we FaceTime all the time. We FaceTime like four times a day. Yeah, at least like we get ready together. On FaceTime. So we were facetiming last night, and we had been sharing pieces of a podcast where you explain what was happening in the podcast. Basically, the guy’s name is Duncan, who runs the podcast, I forget the exact name of the podcast, but his mother was dying from like a breast bone cancer. And she was on the podcast with him. And they were just talking about life and death and the implications of dying, and how that how it feels, and we had listened to one episode earlier. And then this episode that we listened to, we both listened to it last night. And then we kept calling each other in the middle and talking about it. Yeah. It’s so good. And in this episode, this particular episode, she was getting even closer to death. And she was saying how she could feel this vast ness. And she could feel herself being held. And anyway, as all of my started talking, I realized that we have these very deep conversations a lot. And then it might be fun to have all of come on and talk not only like the deep conversations, but also all of has a very interesting story of her own, that I believe that story could help other people. And so that maybe we could talk about all that. But having deep conversations is like nothing new with you and me. No, I think we all first conversations are deep in their own special way. Yeah. We that’s how we communicate. So deep, meaningful. Do you feel like even when you’re younger, we would have deep conversations like when did deep conversations start? I think they started when I was like 12. Yeah. When I was like, old enough to like, actually form deep conversations. But oh, no, I think when you’re younger, you can have deep conversations, but it’s just in a less organized way. It’s in a different kind of way. Yeah. Like I feel like I have deep conversations with my half siblings, Emma and Georgia and who are six and eight and six now. And they have deep conversations, but it’s in a very broken up way because they don’t have the words to explain the thoughts that they’re having. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things we were talking about last night because as a parent I have I feel like I have always treated you not as an adult. I don’t mean that but I’m with a certain level of respect that you would understand like I never felt like I was ever really teach treating you like a kid. I might have been treating you like age appropriately, but never like, you were never talked down to me. No, yeah, that was always a big thing with me that I would answer you Honestly, but age appropriately for everything you asked. And was that hard when you were younger? Like having? You know, there’s a lot everybody that’s listening is like me. But you didn’t have a lot of friends that had parents like me. No, I think I grew up going to like a Christian prayer, a little Christian private school. And so all of my friends moms were like, stay at home. Christian, very conservative mothers. And so to see the difference between my friend’s mother’s and then my mom, who was like, super cool. But did you think it was super cool? Or was it hard? Now, it was definitely hard because I sort of wanted you to be normal, and you weren’t super normal, which my normal you think normal would be what you grew up with. But for me, growing up in like this small Christian church, what my normal is, was what everyone else is normal as which was, like the housewife stay at home mom. And so I would go over to my friend’s house and their moms would be like conservative Christian making food. Like that was the way like they would have live laugh, love signs on their walls. And it just was very conservative. And then my mom is very liberal and very, like she had a pink van at one point that was wrapped and said, What did it say on it? The gas van? Yeah, so pink van and I’d be like, a little embarrassed because she was so different. And it had kettlebells all over it. So it’s at the time where I was doing like outdoor like boot camps and stuff. I owned a little business where I had coaches that work for me, and they would take the van that would be full of gear, but it was covered. I had it wrapped right in pink with kettlebells. And it said big ass van calm. Yeah. So I would pull up to the Christian school to pick you up in the biggest fan. But your friends, did your friends like it? Or did your friends not like that? I think my friends liked it, but didn’t know why they liked it. Yeah. Something about it felt good. But it felt very different than different shouldn’t like it. Yes. That’s it. I remember you having events at school? And you would say, Can you just come dressed like a mom? Like just come like a normal mom? Yeah, I was like, I am a normal mom. And you would look at me. And I just remember one time in particular. And you were like it was those socks that we talked about last night? Yeah. So she had these socks that pointed up to her. But that said, What did they say on them? They said bass, bass or bass and they pointed up to her but and the thing was at the time I owned a CrossFit gym. So when I would go to pick you up, or go to the school for something, I would be like in workout stuff. And you know, crossfitters wear those socks, they pull up to their knees because of the bar. And so it was I could tell that there was a lot of things I did that were cringy. So like, that was one side of it. And then the other side was sort of this what you called last night hippie dippie side. Yes, very spiritual hippie dippie. And that’s always how I explained to my friends that she’s very hippie dippie. And that would sort of get the idea across of what they were getting themselves into beat my friend of like, you’re gonna have some crazy, very spiritual and fun. So when you’re growing up, there was part of you that liked it. And there was part of you that really longed for what everybody else had. And I remember there was a period of time where you wanted to go to the neighbor’s for dinner a lot. Did I lose you? Yes. Nope, we’re good. Okay. So there was a time called, Oh, okay. Whoo. It’s like the first time you didn’t hang up on me for dad. So, so I remember there was a period of time where you wanted to go to the neighbor’s for dinner, like a lot like every night you were going in the neighbors for dinner. And you said to me, her mom’s a normal mom. And I remember at first being like her about it, but then I realized I didn’t have to feed you if you don’t have to figure out what to feed everybody. If you’re gone, I can just be like ketchup packets for Craig, you know, so. So it was sort of a little bit of a different kind of upbringing than You were seeing on the outside? Yes. Everyone else had very conservative was just the best word to use for mothers. And I had a very hippie, dippie, loving, warm, welcoming mother, who was very different. I remember once you had a sleep over, and all the kids were standing around the kitchen island, and I went around the island and told them all the things I thought were cool about them. You guys were like, in seventh grade or something. And I remember they all looked at me like, I like this. And this is so weird. Yeah. So all of that just to kind of set up the, I guess, set up the like, background for other things in your life. So what else? What else is like, I don’t want to use the word different, but what other things have happened, that you think you’ve learned a lot, or people could learn from you? Because I think you’re really incredible. Like you’ve been through a lot, and you’re really awesome and resilient. Thank you. I went through a lot of mental illness. I think my mental illness started when I was really young, probably like six. I would say What makes you say that? Why? What makes you say six? I say six because that’s when I remember being like uncomfortable stuff. Like I used to have a lot of issues with clothing. And I had just a lot of issues with clothing and with being around people and being around loud noises and a lot of anxiety. Just around everything. Yeah, I remember clothing specifically, how would you describe it was like a sensory, it was just a sensory thing super uncomfortable, especially the arms of clothing. If it was too tight. Like you’ll see those cute shirts that have like the bubble sleeves, bubble sleeves, and they cinch at the bottom. And that would bother me so much the centering. It was like this little plastic band that would cinch the arm and it was so uncomfortable to me. Yeah, and socks. I remember you had a hard time with socks. I had a terrible time with socks. I remember when I played soccer socks were a really difficult thing for me because we had thick wool socks that we were for soccer. Yeah. And and that was what like, and that was age four. Yeah, age four. So even earlier, I think I was born with mental illness. Just tell me what you when you say mental illness? What? How would How? What’s your definition of that? I think my definition of mental illnesses. For me by anxiety, my depression that I’ve struggled with later on in life, I don’t think I really had depression when I was four, but definitely just sick and sick in a way that was just tiring. And just sad. Just sadness. Yeah, growing up. I remember years later. And we’ll get to that. But years later, I found some art you had drawn, and letters you had written and it was very, very sad. And scary to find. Yes. So. So you feel like this started? Maybe you were born with it, and you’d had it forever. And it started when you were younger, more like sensory stuff, then it got when would you say that it expanded and got to where it was like harder to do things? I’d say around 12. Probably like when puberty started. That’s when my depression really started. And my anxiety became, like an unbearable sort of shadow. Yeah, yeah. And really not even a shadow. It became the forefront of your life and the focus for many years. Yeah, it was it consumed me for sure. Yeah. Can you tell people a little bit about what happened and how you experienced that? How would I describe I want to sort of keep it as linear as possible. But when I was 12, I remember it was really difficult to make friends because of anxiety. And also it was unbearable to be around people and around. noise was a big thing for me. Like I didn’t want to make any noise and if there was too many noises, it was a lot for me to handle. Yeah, it wasn’t the volume of the noise it was how many different loads were going on. So if like five people were talking at once, it became really difficult for me to handle because I wanted to listen to everything. But my brain couldn’t handle. Yeah, yeah. And so what would happen when that would, when too many noises would be happening? Usually, I would just cry. That was sort of my first stop was just to cry. Because you get all this anxiety and it builds up, builds up builds up and you want to get it out physically. And my way to get it out physically was just to cry, right? So I would go to if I was at school, I’d go to the bathroom and cry, and just like, get it out. And then I would go back to class and try to be as normal as possible. And I know lots of times when you would go into the bathroom, you’d call me. Yes. Yes. And that was like, I would say, like, 6/7 grade probably when that really started? Yes. For sure. So now you’re in school. Right? Yes, seventh grade, you’re having all of this stuff happen. You’re feeling tons of anxiety, it’s making you depressed, it’s making you hard to hard to have friends. Because you were the kid that would go in the bathroom and cry. Yeah, so very difficult. And so then that’s kind of how, like, bring me all the way up to speed like go through, like an overview of kind of how it manifested. You mean when I’m in sixth grade, or as I got older, like as you got older, so it started like that. So let’s think of it in terms of like somebody listening. And they have a kid that 6/7 grade, and they’re starting to see this. Yes. I think that one of the things we can do today is just to share your journey, I think could be really powerful for somebody else to just hear, of course. And also as we’re going through I, I believe that I did the very best I could with what I knew at the time. But also, I think it made it harder, because I was so upbeat. Yes. So then it was like, Yeah, go ahead. I wanted someone to be in the hurt with me. Yeah. And even though that’s really difficult, and probably not the right. thing is that that’s a natural thing. I think, though, yeah, yeah. You want people to hurt with you. And you want someone to understand the pain that you’re going through? Because it was painful. The anxiety and the depression. It was like, almost physically painful. Yeah, it was all consuming. It never stopped. I would lay up in bed and cry for hours. Just trying to fall asleep, and just not happy with my life or where I was. Yeah, yeah. And there was nothing wrong in my life, which made it even more difficult to explain and understand because I wasn’t like abused as a kid. I wasn’t. I didn’t have an eating disorder. There was no like, terrible thing going on. Right. But it was just this anxiety and this depression that? Well, the anxiety and the Depression was the terrible thing. Yeah, it was the terrible thing. But you were some other reason. Besides, yeah, I was looking for the depression anxiety to be the effect of some cause. Yeah. When really, it was the cause. Yeah, yeah. Alright, so then you get into high school, what happens? Then I get into high school, and I cannot keep my grades up. I cannot keep friends. I I have one friend named Abby, who is my bestest friend. Yeah. And she’s neighbors, one of our neighbors. And I couldn’t get my grades up, I couldn’t function. I would go to class. And I would not do the work because I didn’t understand how to do the work with how much pain I was feeling. I don’t know how to explain it other than there was so much pain going on in everywhere, that it was impossible to do focus on anything else. Yeah. So yeah, go ahead. So usually I would just go to the bathroom and cry and call my mom and ask her to pick me up and like beg for her to help me in some way. And that was really difficult. And throughout all of this, you were going to therapy, right like not like we were just ignoring, like a lot of help. And even if you had a lot of help at the school, Yes, we had special help for you in terms of your classes. You were on an IEP. So you got extra time with things. So there was a lot of services and stuff on the back end going on. Well, all this was going on. Yeah. It felt like it didn’t matter. It was still so all encompassing that it just didn’t matter. Right. Yeah, yeah. It. We got so much help. And nothing was doing what it needed to do. And it just was very difficult. And then, and then I was on medication. I was on a medication called Zoloft. And this Zoloft I was on for probably like, how long was I on that? Would you say maybe a year, we tried, like, a lot of different diets and stuff to help you to like 30. We did. Like we did a lot of stuff to try and help. Like, and tried not to do medication. Because for me, I had a lot of fear. or young brain being on medication. And yeah, but then we realized it was a matter of life or death. But yes, you get help. So you were on Zoloft for about a year. I would say like 10 months, maybe? Yeah. And are the Zoloft was going fine. And then I we upped the Zoloft because it wasn’t doing what I was supposed to be doing. And so the doctor tried to up it. And that gave me like horrific nightmares as a lof once it got to the amount of Zoloft that I was taking, so I was taking a little bit and then they upped the amount of K mount of medication that I was taking. And that’s when these nightmares started. I wouldn’t even call them nightmares. I felt like they were hallucinations like it was you think they were hallucinations? Wait. Yes Is experiences. Yes. So you wasn’t really a nightmare? Because you weren’t asleep? You were awake? Yes. It was more like a hellish hallucination. Yes. And they would happen at night, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the night, and I would stay up until they happened because I didn’t want to fall asleep. And then I would get zero sleep because I was going through this terrible. I feel like you were on the Zoloft for like 10 months, but I feel like we it. They upped it like maybe like at three months or something. And so there was a whole period of time like say six months. Seven months. Were you were having these hallucinations. But you didn’t tell anybody? Yes, I didn’t tell anyone. And I think the reason I didn’t tell anyone is because I just thought that I was crazy. I just thought that you thought it was like part of you going nuts that you were like yeah, I thought I was just delusional and crazy. and and the the hallucinations you were having were not easy to watch. No. It was like watching friends die. It was hurting myself. It was like every worst fear that you can have wrapped into a delusion. Yeah. And then I can go more into depth of those if you want. And that was like, What sophomore year? Yeah, sophomore year. Okay. So yeah, I mean, if you want to talk about those more, I know for me, this is when things got on my side of this equation. Always there was this, like, worry and concern like my whole life, I knew you had some kind of level of anxiety. I remember you being two years old and in the car seat. And watching you go. Like, take a big breath. Like that takes my breath. And I remember thinking like she’s stressed. And you were like, maybe two? Yeah. So like, I really feel like you were born with this. And to jump all the way back. Just from my perspective. I had a really bad pregnancy, it was not an easy pregnancy. And I felt really strange during my pregnancy. And the only way I could describe it is like I would my face would go red when I would talk like I would be embarrassed. I felt really self conscious. I felt anyway, like all of these things that I think you were feeling. I think you were feeling that inside the womb. And I was experiencing it. I don’t I know that sounds a little weird, but because then immediately you were stressed and you had anxiety. And so then all through this, we were trying to get help. I mean it was very, very stressful. And I know your perspective is like Mom was always super happy and upbeat. Like we talked about that a little bit last night. And I think that’s sort of my disposition. But there was a side of me that was like, I didn’t know what to do. Like I was trying everything. So there was a part of me by this point that was becoming quite desperate. Yes. So you start watching it happen, yes. What to do? And like, I would say, you know, if you had a broken leg, I’d bring you to the doctor. And then the doctor would be like, Oh, she has broken line, we do this and this and this, and then you’d be fine. Yeah, but with this, we went to a lot of doctors and a lot. We went to a lot of good doctors, it took a while to find good doctors. Yeah, it’s very difficult to find, like a perfect doctor for your situation. And one that like, actually listens, and doesn’t like just want to throw medication at it. Yes. So Alright, so now you’re having these hallucinations. Do you want to talk any more about those? Because I think that kind of leads into what we do next. Yeah, of course, we can talk about nations. I had a friend who is transgender. And he was like a good friend of mine. And I had this dream that people would just beat him up. And he would die from these beatings. Yeah. I still remember it vividly of like, how, like, they would break his jaw, they would break his arm in two places his wrist and three, break his nose, break his jaw, and then they would break his ribs and his ribs would puncture his organs. And then that is how he would die. And he would die looking at me. And just like screaming, yeah. And sort of watch that every night for like a year. Yeah. It’s really difficult and in isolation, because you were afraid to tell us somebody? Yeah, we’re experiencing all this in isolation. So you’d be up all night. So then in the morning, when I’d wake you up for school at 515, because your school bus came out early, which most of the time I drove you But yeah, what would happen? I would wake up, I probably got like three hours of sleep each night. Like genuinely like I did not sleep. Because I would stay awake through these hallucinations. And then I would just cried myself to sleep. Yeah. And so that was probably maybe like five hours a night. five to two. I was getting no sleep. Yeah. And that, of course, made everything worse, because you need sleep to survive. And I wasn’t getting the sleep that I hated. You’d have hallucinations just from not having enough sleep. Yeah, probably. You can have that. So yeah, yeah, that sense. This would be aggravating the whole thing. So this goes on. Now you’re in your sophomore year, you won’t get up for school. I bring you to school, lots of times I drive you which is a hellish drive, because there’s go to this school where there’s 4000 kids. And so it’s like a traffic jam. It takes like an hour to get like a half a mile to school or whatever. Yeah. And then if I drop you off, then you’re immediately you’re calling me to come get you? Yes. Immediately. Like I would go in and I would see how many people there were. And I would just freak out and go to the bathrooms and tried to get help. Yeah, their mom. And it was just really difficult to get through. Yeah, just the amount of people all crammed together in a lunchroom. Yeah, was really difficult to see an experience. Yeah. And so nothing was working. I was very sick. And then I eventually told my mom, I broke down. I told my mom about the hallucinations. And I just said like, this is what’s been happening. I don’t know how to handle it. This is why I’m not this way. I would take naps when I got home from school. Well, you would come home from school like around nine 930. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, almost every day you were calling or the school is calling and like, I would just barely get home and then you’d be calling and so for me, it was like she’s got to go to school. Like she’s not going to school. Like I was like, what happens if you don’t go to school? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, and then one day you came downstairs? Can I tell this from my purse, go for it. So you came downstairs. I knew like something’s going on, like major things are going on. But it’s so I don’t really know. I don’t understand. And you had shaved your head. You were wearing a giant white t shirt like a men’s t shirt. Yeah. And you came downstairs and you sat at the kitchen table. And you looked down at the ground. And then just your eyes looked up at me. So it was extra scary feeling. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just your eyes looked up and you said, Can I share how you said what you said, of course, the beatings start at 2am. And then you described like what you just said, Yeah. It’s a stab wound to the flank gets a like you said this whole series. And I said, I was like, what, what? And then you said it again? exactly the same. And so I knew in that moment that this was something that you knew so well, that you must have seen it a million times. Yeah. And I remember, I like put my finger up. And I was like, I’m gonna call your dad. And you know, in all of this, how would you describe your dad and all of this? Because I love your dad, your dad’s awesome. So yeah. Yeah. Can’t live with us. And so he was very not in the situation. He just didn’t understand. Yeah. He didn’t know about it. Yeah, like, at all, because he wasn’t living with me. So he didn’t see the everyday struggles. And I would tell him, but it was like, it’s so horrific that you can’t, yes, imagine that. It’s so horrific that I think he was like, okay, that’s like now. And then he would come and see you. And when he would come and see you, it would just be you too. And so you would be okay, because you weren’t overwhelmed? Yeah, yeah. Because really, in the middle of all that you were a sweet, smart kid who read a lot and had interesting conversations, and were loving and you cared about people and animals, you know. So like, in the middle of all this is like this, you know, on one side, it’s like the school version of you and like the, I’m going to say, like, comparing you to other kids your age, and what they’re doing and all of that. But then on the other hand, there’s this like, really amazing human being being created in this. And so that day, when you sat there, I called your dad and I was like, okay, like, this is something’s happening. Something is not like this is not right. Yeah. And then I think from there, it almost feels like a little bit of a blur to me at this point. So like, from there. Yeah, I remember we went to Waffle House. Because that’s what you do when things are our house. I remember we went to Waffle House, and you were just in shock eating the entire time. And I remember I just told you all the other hallucinations because there were three main ones. Yeah. There was the beating of my best friend. No, it’s not real. It’s okay. Think about me eating Waffle House. What did I order? I ordered the cheese and eggs because that’s what I would get. Yeah. I would eat your hashbrowns. Yes, yes. Because I didn’t want to get fat. So it was very Yeah. So you had three main ones. And you told me it was just so unbelievable. Like, that’s the only way to describe like, I’m so like, I was my heart hurt for you. I was suffering for you. I was suffering for me, because I was like, I don’t understand, like you don’t know what’s going on? Yeah. You don’t have to say the other ones. If it’s Yeah. And so we could tap we could EFT, tap, tap, tap on that. Okay, right. Yeah, well, yeah. So we tap a lot. This is really why a lot. The reason why I learned a lot of the tools that I share and that I teach my coaching clients is because we went through this, you know, there’s a program that I have called the rise and all of the tools in that come from, like the things I had to learn to overcome my own personal overwhelm in the situation. And the things that I learned to try and help you too. So I think that’s, like good can come from these things, even though Yeah, terrific, you know, yeah. Alright, so we’re, there’s a waffle house. You’re telling me I can’t believe it. So I’m just focused on my eggs. I’m I was wearing my jean jacket that has flannel lining, and I put spikes in the shoulders. Do you remember outfits from like important events? Like I remember, hearing the moment my mom, I found out my mom died, like I remember, like outfits sort of like define my memories of things. Yeah, I definitely want my outfit of setting up that Waffle House and just explaining everything. Yeah. So there you are telling me all this? And then what do we do? Not like, sometimes I know, we’re trying to like explain this in like a way that makes sense. And but there’s so many little itty bitty pieces that come in to this. Yeah. Like, like you had trauma from the hallucinations. So we have to at this point, we had to deal with the hallucinations. We had to deal with the medication issue. That was the depression and the anxiety. So now there’s two issues. But then we also had to deal with you had PTSD from the hallucinations that we had to go get. We got EMDR we did a lot of things right in that To try and deal with all right to deal with that. So it was like it was getting bigger. Yeah. There was so many. Cool. You weren’t going to wait, the school had come to our house to teach you at home. Yeah, even that was like a just a train wreck. Yeah. Just nothing more was working out. Everything. It was so big. And there was so much going on. And there were so many veins to it. Yeah. And it just was awful. And so what was the tipping point? When did things change? I think things changed. When my dad, I moved to my dad’s house for a little bit. And that’s when he saw how terrible it was. And that’s when he found hillside. And he, yeah, go for it. I was just gonna say so on my side, I was losing it. At this point, I was losing it. And I got up really early one day and I was in my office. I remember I was in my because I remember outfits. I was in the bathrobe, I used to have the data for Christmas. And I had my coffee and I was looking out the front window. And I was I had been having periods of time over like the last though like maybe three weeks before, where I was starting to feel outside my body. And so like when things would happen with you. Because there was a lot happening. It wasn’t like this was happening like in isolation. Like in the middle of like, there was a lot of tension and like drama and fighting and a lot of ways to because I didn’t understand and you couldn’t explain it. And I wanted somebody to explain it to me, I didn’t know what to do. I was mad at everybody for not helping me nobody could see it. I started to feel very disconnected from my body as if I was outside of my body. And so this particular Saturday morning, I was sitting there drinking my coffee, and I was feeling that and I felt like I’ve got to lay on the floor. I have to lay on the floor. And so I laid down on the floor in my office. And I remember feeling I can’t get up, like I can’t get up. Like I like like I it’s not safe for me to get off the floor. And to the point where it’s not safe for me to move my cheek off the floor, you know? Yeah. So like when I look back, like I was having a complete dissociative episode like the beginning of PTSD. acute stress disorder is what I was diagnosed with. And so I remember thinking I wanted to just move I wanted to go to Africa. And I think I texted my sister and said, I think I need to go to Africa. Well, I mean, I don’t know what you know, I mean, yeah, yeah. And Craig came in, my husband Craig came in and said, what, what need what do we need to do? And I said, you need to call Chris. That’s your dad. Yeah, you need to call Chris. Uh, he needs to come here. He needs to take her. Like, I can’t do this anymore. And in the meantime, like, over the few weeks or months before, I mean, I had spent a lot of time hiding in my closet because it was so overwhelming, like, do you know what I mean? So there’s a lot going on in all of this for everybody. And I’m so he called Chris and left a message and that’s when dad came and got you. Yep. The dad came and got you. He had you for he was supposed to have you for a week. He had you for like two Yeah. And he called me. He’s like, Why didn’t you tell me? Oh my god. Yeah. And I was like, Oh my God, I’ve been telling people for years. years, nobody’s listening. nobody’s listening to me. And so that’s really when we got like, an we went. Well, no, actually, that’s not when you went to hillside. That’s when we brought you to the doctor. To the house. Yes. to the hospital. Can we talk about that? Yeah, of course. I’m trying to decide was that day that I called dad and dad came to get you? I think that’s the day we brought you to the hospital. I don’t think that’s the day you went and lived with dad for for Yeah, I think we went to the hospital. First. We went to the hospital, and they were like, what are you feeling? And I was like, I feel like I’m gonna kill myself. Yeah. And they were like, Oh, that’s not good. So they put me in a mental institution called Laurel wood. They took that away that day from the hospital. Like it was out of our the state basically. Yeah. Took you. I don’t remember they put you in a truck with like armed guards. Yep. They put me in a van. And like a huge, like in the back of the van. Yeah, there was like a cage in the back of the van. It was padded, and it looked outward. So there was a chair in the van and it would look outward. So when they were driving, I could look at the cars that were behind this van. Right. Yeah. Yeah, there were like Windows. Yeah, and tap, tap, tap. It’s, it’s painful to think about because it brings you right back to it, which really shows you how powerful you are that you can bring yourself back to sadness, which means you can also bring yourself right back to happiness. Right? You’re super powerful superpower. And you can’t see her right now. But she’s just tapping. Because that’s how we rewrite we reprogram our subconscious, right, we can reprogram our nervous system by doing. So it’s really powerful. And I love that you go right to that. I love you so much. You’re such a special human being and having gone through this. And being brave enough to talk about it. It it really, you know, sometimes it’s like, well, how is this going to help anybody but just hearing the story will help other people recognize it earlier for their kids. Yeah. Right. Like, there’s so much good. You have so many good things to offer to the world. I’m so grateful you’re here that you chose to stay here with your hippie dippie mother. I remember I saying a Gregory in the hawk song to myself on the spot. In the band. Yeah, yeah. I remembered that was like, so they took you and I remember it was a 48 hour hold. And I remember I had to get your clothes that had no strings. You had to take all the shoelaces out of your shoes. Like I remember being, like, still worried about you? Yeah. And I didn’t know what was going on. And then on my end, I was I was, on one hand like, this is the saddest worst thing that’s ever happened. It feels so scary. I don’t know what’s going on. And the second part of it was, I was so happy to have relief and to have no somebody was watching you all the time. So I rest you know, yeah, yeah. And I remember my sister who lives in Seattle reached out. And she said, What can I do? I’m here in Seattle, like, what can I do? What can I do? And I remember I said, I need to get a massage. So that I can move this emotion through my body. Like it didn’t feel like I need to go get to the spot. Like it wasn’t that and yet was like, I need therapy therapeutic touch to like, move me through this. And you get she immediately like scheduled me a massage. And I just went and I was like a zombie. It felt like the zombie land. Yeah. And it did and I cried during the massage and it helped so much. That’s good. Yeah. But meanwhile, you’re in there. And the thing I hate about that experience, there was a good thing from my view there. There was a good thing and a bad thing that came from that. Maybe all of it was good because it was a learning but one is they got you on daytime schedule because you had been sleeping have been all day and gotten after you had to had those hallucinations you’ve got in a pattern yeah sleeping during the day and being awake all night and that didn’t stop you know what i mean so yeah like that they got you on that schedule and when i tried to get you on that schedule you’d get really angry because you i mean you were so tired you know i was exhausted so it was like you just would get really really angry so it was like i didn’t want to it was like you didn’t want to shake the tree you know what i mean you just wanted peace and if you had some peace because you were sleeping during the day then it was almost like a relief so we were like letting you do that we went there they didn’t care they put you on they made you stay you were tired at night and so that was a really good thing that came out of it yeah the other thing is they put you immediately on medication which was the same class of medication that gave you the horrific nightmares nightmares nations whatever you want to call and so i was so mad about it and so like the day you came out i just took you off it yeah and because your doctor friend was like no way jose right she was like that’s the same class of medication like that get put on something else if they’re going to do that so i had called the emdr lady who was really like holistically i liked her a lot yeah she was really great and i said this is what’s happened what do i do like i just need to know what to do and she said have you ever had her diagnosed now i was like what i brought it to a million doctors like if nobody’s diagnosed it like so then the weird thing was at that point i did bring you somewhere got you diagnosed it was a misdiagnosis but again it was a gift closer because it got us it got us moving in the right direction yeah there was a whole bunch of other little things that have happened happened in the middle of all of that and then we found hillside yes hillside was basically they had you know you could go for months and just stay there and live there it’s for people 18 and younger and they would just keep you there or you could go to this day program which is what i did so i would go during the day then i would go home at night and how where was i there um you did a six week program there or or something like that but yeah that’s why we had to live with daddy because dad lived right near there yeah dad lived right next to like right near it and so i stayed with him and i stayed at hillside during the day and then go home at night and their week of being there you were feeling better yeah like it was remarkable like the first thing was bad yeah the first week was bad second week was okay and then all the weeks after that was really good yeah yeah and they did dbt therapy there yes dbt dialectical behavioral therapy which i had tried that in two other places remember we came to buckhead to the dbt center we had done so we had tried some of that but it wasn’t in this like intense all day everything dbt yes in the whole way they did it was just so helpful and then we had family therapy also yes so we would do family therapy i had art therapy i was there with a bunch of other kids who had similar stories and they all were so yeah it was really comforting to have all these other kids who were like we’re all so messed up yeah and then you were like i’m not as messed up as a lot of people yeah and it was nice having friends yeah yeah and then you started to come back come back to all of his it’s making you cry a little bit because a COVID like we don’t have friends again because it’s hard right now so in all of that then you came out of that and you decided i don’t want to go back to high school like i don’t want to go back into that environment i want to move forward and so you get your ged and you know mike you take ged classes whatever it takes like six months or whatever and you were like i didn’t know this how do i know all this no i was like i already know all this oh yeah you were like i already know i was like i was there um yeah you were like i know all this you took the test in like two weeks and passed everything cuz you’re smart you’re a reader like and i think like like school was difficult it was the structure of school but you are smart and you love to read and learn stuff like i don’t know so you you just you came through it you got your ged you still don’t have your license at that point but within like a month or two we got your license yep and now now one and now i’m doing really good i’m in college i’m currently at georgia state university i’m gonna try to transfer to scad trying to transfer to scad anybody who’s gonna you know anyone let us sell artist yes i draw every day and i’m doing really well and what’s your big dream i want to be a tattoo artist yeah yeah that’s the big that’s the final goal yeah so i love it so you got your own apartment you’re going to school you’re feeling really good you’re you have good days and bad days but just like everyone else’s days and now when you look back at that journey what do you think i’m really grateful for that’s like yeah that’s like the big thing they changed your life yeah they really did they really did and you still see a doctor from hillside yeah you keep that piece yeah and he’s great he’s perfect for me yeah he’s very cool because he and i read the same books like he’s right yeah he is yeah i like him a lot too so he’s super cool which all of us like sometimes i’m like can i go with you to go see him she’s like my doctor i’m like i can see what books he has on his coffee table i have new ones i need to know what they are so um so when you look back now at that time does it seem like somebody else like that seems so different from who you are it does it doesn’t seem like it happened to me entirely yeah it feels very disconnected yeah cuz you’re like i don’t need yeah i don’t even remember a lot of what happened in the way that memories are usually like i know what happened but it feels like when you look at a picture of yourself when you were like three and your parents are like oh that was at this house and this is what you did and it’s like oh now i know that that’s what i did but i don’t really remember it through the scope of my own slides right yeah yeah a lot has changed a lot is different so what would be your advice to someone who is going through this or has gone through this in their life it really does get better yeah you gotta just keep fighting for it and keep working on it and just every day will even if the next day sucks it’ll be better than the last and you’re just gonna keep getting better and better and everything’s gonna be okay yeah i remember when you were really sick i used to tell you i promise you it gets better this isn’t it like i promise you and i would make you promise that you wouldn’t leave me because i was like i won’t be able to do it yeah i would lose my mind yeah and i think part of what kept you around is because she didn’t want to do that to me yeah no for sure i like the two things that kept me around were you and the cat yeah the cat we got you in therapy cat and he’s the best yeah we got me a therapy cat and he’s i got him when i was like 12 and i was like he would be really sad without me so i can’t go anywhere yeah exactly he would he would be very sad when she went by he stayed with me and he was so mad he was so my dad would pee on the couch he would pee on the cat was so disgusting i got rid of that couch but i was like i can’t like this cat is he was like having withdrawals you know i was like gotta have the cat so then we brought him over to dad’s and yeah he was so happy even though he had to stay in your room he didn’t care he just was like this so great yeah i’m really really proud of you thank you you’ve come a long long way and i think it’s just a testament to like press severence and support right and the right help yes not giving up there’s gonna be a lot of like not great doctors before you find a really great one yeah just keep pushing yeah yeah and for moms or caregivers you know dads whoever i would say like don’t forget your own mental health in this i learned a lot and learned that i had to really take care of myself and in a lot of ways i mean it was a blessing for me in a lot of ways too because It really made me one of the things I remember was that it made me get really, really clear on not having outside circumstances control my internal happiness. I remember there was a time period and I don’t want to jump back cuz I know we’re kind of closing out Yeah, I’m period where it was hard for you to not hurt yourself in that. And I would have to help and stop you and maintain happiness. Well, that was happening. And I remember that being a practice for me. Like, I this is my training ground to learn how to maintain happiness, even in the midst of chaos and terrible, like the most terrible you could think of, like when I think I talk a lot about my mom dying on the show and stuff like it’s a big part of my life. What happened with you is 19 times worse. Like, so much worse. So much worse. Because it’s still healing to go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming on the show. Yeah, of course. I love you so much. I’m grateful. You’re my daughter. Thanks for taking me to come into this world and do this with Yeah, of course. All right. Thanks for being here. All right, bye. Yeah. Bye. Thank you so much for being here and for listening to today’s episode. If you liked it and got something out of it, please be sure to share with me by leaving a review over on iTunes. And if you’re not following on social media, I am everywhere at Betsy Pake, but most of the time over on Instagram, so follow and comment on my latest post so that we can connect there. I will see you next week. And until then, keep living big